<Begin Segment 9>

[Ed. note: This transcript has been edited by the narrator]

TL: Which camp were you in when the so-called "loyalty oath" was given?

MK: (...) Topaz.

TL: Topaz.

MK: Yeah.

TL: Can you talk about your reaction to the -- to that oath?

MK: Oh.

TL: To the questions?

MK: Oh, yeah. I think we'd better go a bit further because, as I said casually, I was interviewed by the FBI because I was a Kibei and I was trained in martial arts. So at that interview it was very uncomfortable because he called me a "Jap" and all those dirty stuff. And then told me, finally that because I'm a Kibei, because I was trained in martial arts, I cannot leave the camp. That was quite a shocking event. And because of that shocking event, when the loyalty oath came out, I said, "No-no."

TL: When, when did the FBI interview you? Was it as soon as you arrived...?

MK: (The FBI interviewed me at Topaz in the spring of 1943.)

TL: ...in Topaz, or...?

MK: (...)

AI: Excuse me. As I recall from your writing -- from your book -- the FBI interviewed you because you had applied to leave to attend school...

MK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

AI: ...outside of camp. Is that right?

MK: (Yes.)

AI: And then you had this very unpleasant interview.

MK: (Yes.)

AI: And it sounds like the FBI staff person was quite abusive, verbally abusive to you.

MK: They're quite capable of doing that. (And it is this FBI interrogation which haunted me for the next eighteen years when I received my Ph.D. from Tokyo University and became confident that there is a realm beyond loyalty, a realm through which I can make a positive contribution in promoting the cultural growth of this country.)

TL: Um, let's see.

AI: (...)

MK: (...)

TL: After you answered "no-no," what happened to you?

MK: Well, subsequently I was sent here -- Tule Lake.

TL: Okay.

MK: Yeah.

TL: And there were many other "no-nos," but they had other reasons also for saying "no-no."

MK: Yes. Yeah. So...

TL: So how did you fit in with all of those kinds of "no-nos"?

MK: Okay. There was the radical "no-no." Today, when we went to the camp site I saw some scribblings. And some of them referred to the "Black Dragon Society," which is a right-wing society. Some would say, "Asia for the Asians." And some would say, "Japan is a country of the gods." You see, these type of Kibei represent the radical segment. (I despised these people.)

[Interruption]

AI: So as I recall from your writing, you did not complete high school at Topaz. And after you answered "no-no," then you were brought to Tule Lake. And -- what happened then, when you came to Tule Lake?

MK: (I completed my high school education at Tule Lake. And the teachers there) were dedicated, dedicated to the extent that they wanted to help us, (so much so that I consider many of them as the forerunners of the civil rights movement.) (...)

TL: (...)

MK: (...)

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 1998 Densho. All Rights Reserved.