<Begin Segment 5>

[Ed. note: This transcript has been edited by the narrator]

TL: You've mentioned that there were different kinds of Kibei. Could you talk about that some more?

MK: Okay. Now then, there were -- particularly in places like Tule Lake -- there were radical Kibei. And then there were Kibei who were very passive. And then there were Kibei who had the insight to do something (positive) after the war. Now, I think we have to grant the fact that most of the Kibei who were educated in Japan lived (there) at a time of nationalism (and) militarism. (That is, during the 1920s and 1930s. But) what many people ignore is this: (...) Babe Ruth came to Japan in (1934) as a guest of the Japanese; (Col. Lindberg and his wife came to Japan in 1931); Charlie Chaplin came to Japan in 1932. (...) You know that the Winter Olympic held last winter in Nagano (in 1998)? (Its) theme song was "Let the Children Rule the World." (...) This is a theme that the Japanese has conceived in as early as the '20s (and this is an extension of the late 1920s mood. At that time) Japanese children made dolls and send it to American students. And the American students created dolls and sent them back to the Japanese student. Of course, this project was an innovation of an American, but it was so great that it cemented the relationship -- the tense relationship that we saw between the American government and the U.S. government. Many people seemed to ignore these social events because they don't know. But a Kibei who was educated in Japan in the '20s and '30s would know (...) (that underlying) nationalism (and) militarism, (was the) peace movement (actively participated by American and Japanese children. And as I said, the Japanese interest in things American was overwhelming.)

So when you see the Kibei -- radical Kibei in Tule Lake, they (represented) a (small) segment of the Kibei who (endorsed) militarism and nationalism, not those Kibei who understood the undercurrent, (social mood of that period). (...) I think that these things ought to be noted and be (recorded) for the American public, (...) not only amongst the Japanese Americans. So what I'm saying is that, don't just say that the Kibei who were educated in Japan are all radicals. (...)

TL: Was that peace movement evident in your school? So was that something you were exposed to as a student?

MK: Well, it's not only my school. Throughout (all) the schools (in Japan). (...)

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 1998 Densho. All Rights Reserved.