<Begin Segment 8>

MN: So when you were growing up, they didn't have the Boy Scouts yet?

JK: No. There was a Boy Scout troop, but it was not like a drum and bugle corps to show off the troop. It was mostly community, they went for the merit badges. Now it serves.

MN: Now who sponsored this Boy Scout?

JK: The community, the older people. One of the older ones became scoutmaster, and yeah.

MN: So you were not with the Boy Scout, but you were with the YMCA, right?

JK: YMCA and the Olivers.

MN: Before we get into Olivers, tell me about the YMCA.

JK: Now YMCA had one person who worked for the YMCA. I think his office was right, Third or Fourth Street downtown. But I think he worked on the head honchos to have office in the Japanese town. Because this fellow named Masao Sato was very instrumental in pushing the Y for us. And he spent his whole life with the Y. And thanks to him, the Y is part of the Japanese community now.

MN: So when you were involved with the Y, what kind of sports activities did you boys do, and where did you play if there was no office?

JK: Well, we had a basketball court on Second and Main. That was like a gym. People went there to practice boxing or even fight, and that's where they started their boxing interest. It led to people becoming interested in boxing. And so we had people taking up boxing now, and well, there's quite a few boxers in early age.

MN: Did you box?

JK: No. No, my... generation after mine, I guess.

MN: Now you mentioned Masao Satow was head of this Y in Los Angeles trying to get it opened here. What kind of person was he?

JK: Oh, well, he was such a nice person. I knew him as an adult because he was now tangled up in the Y work. He had lots to do with our Japanese Y. Yes, he's, we owe a lot to him because he was associated with a group, the Anchovy group, our club called the Anchovies. Anchovies are the little fish, bait fish, and that was the name for one of the groups. And the Anchovies was a club that he helped start, and that was from the Twentieth Street School. That was from Twentieth Street Christian church that sprang up for the Nisei. So...

MN: Let's talk about the Olivers now. Can you share with us actually what is the Olivers, when did it start?

JK: Well, Ms. Oliver was a teacher at Hayward Street School just west of Maryknoll church. Maryknoll was there, but the school was right across the street from the Japanese Zenshuji. The school was there, it was a small school. And Ms. Oliver was a teacher, and she had a family, she came from the Midwest. After school, she saw the boys playing right in the street. No traffic, but dangerous. So she prevailed upon her older brothers, "Hey, teach these boys the rules for this game." So we took a bunch of them, taught them rules about this game, rule for that game. Pretty soon they were playing the game right away. So she said, "What's happening during the summertime with these boys?" She started a girls club too, but the boys was her main worries. Well, she was in charge of the Oliver building that was part of the Japanese school. So she said, "Hey, they could take over the building." So she and another lady were running a cooking school for the Nisei, for the Mexicans, for the Indians, for any foreign people that didn't know how to cook American-style. They had a room, u-shaped cooking stove for each person to learn how to cook American-style. And so they were cooking hot dogs and hamburgers, things like that. So that became Ms. Oliver's contribution. So she started a club. Men's club first, her brothers' in charge. So the club officially started after World War I. So this group of boys played basketball. They went out and beat San Francisco, the champ of California. So Olivers took over. So they started to enter sectional competition. The boys took this Oliver Sr., that was the first name for the club. Well, as our boys grew up, the seniors went on, juniors took over, Midgets took over. So in line, each group took over the leadership and became a legend in southern California. Olivers and Golden Bears became a legend. "Which group are you?" "Oh, Midget." "Are you Cubs?" "I'm Cubs." Then the younger ones had another.

MN: How long were the Olivers in existence? Is it still in existence?

JK: No. We kind of disbanded 2600, no one fellow that was in charge like a meeting, he says, well, he didn't have any younger help. So about 2600 we kind of quit the...

MN: 2006?

JK: Yes. (Our last trophy is still on display at a downtown window.)

MN: Now you know, a lot of these sports clubs like the Olivers and the Cougars in Boyle Heights sort became like gangs. Did you guys get into a lot of fights with the other sports teams?

JK: Well, at first we had fights because they wanted to come downtown. [Laughs] We won't let them come downtown to celebrate in their style. But then the JAU came in, Japanese Athletic Union.

MN: By Aki Komai?

JK: Mas Saito.

MN: Oh, Mas Sato.

JK: So we formed a league for baseball -- but football was going on but it was too expensive -- softball and basketball. So they became an athletic league. So now we have Cougars, Golden Bears, Oliver, then the Spartans on the south side. West side, Shamrocks, San Fernando, we had team from all the districts of southern California. Now we have teams over all the countryside.

MN: So when you boys got together, especially like in Nisei Week, were there trouble?

JK: At first, they were from the country, you know. "You don't know city style," that's the thing.

MN: You were talking about one big fight that was during Nisei Week. What was that about?

JK: I know they were chasing people up and down the streets.

MN: Actually, I'm sorry. It wasn't Nisei Week, it was at the pool hall at First and San Pedro.

JK: Oh, yeah. The pool hall were associated with kind of gambling. So pool halls had a bad name because they were either up on the second floor or the basement of the building. So it had a bad name and people didn't want to be seen coming out of a pool hall. But the Isseis played pool, and they were not hiding when they came out of the pool halls, because there were mainly pool halls around San Pedro, Second, upstairs. The Niseis were kind of ashamed, they were in the basement on First Street. So I guess... yeah.

MN: You know, there was a well-known gang called the Exclusive 20s. Were you a member of the Exclusive --

JK: No, that was the generation below. My second brother below me was a member of it.

MN: Did he get into a lot of trouble as a member of the Exclusive 20?

JK: Well, they got in trouble with other friends, beating up their friends. Yeah, they came from... well, they were from Boyle Heights. They were a collection of people from near downtown.

MN: Now you were sharing with me that during the summer when you were, I guess, junior high school age, you started to hitchhike on the freight cars?

JK: Yeah. Older people took us, we went. But not too long because they probably had to work through the summer.

MN: How far did you get?

JK: Fresno.

MN: Fresno? What did you do in Fresno?

JK: Pick grapes.

MN: That's a hard job.

JK: Yeah. But we managed.

MN: And your parents didn't mind that...

JK: Well, I guess they thought that we were mature enough. I guess they're too busy with the little ones.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.