<Begin Segment 11>

TI: Something else that happened when you were, were young, under five, 1934 you took a trip to Japan.

MT: Yeah.

TI: So talk about that, why you, the family went to Japan and your memories of that.

MT: My, we had a, my father got a letter from home, from his mother, stating that she was ill and dying. She had cancer, she had all kinds of other diseases, and she was on her last legs. She was gonna die. So my father, this was in late '33, at the end of '33, so he quickly gathered, took his business. He already had a partner, a relative that was a young person, young Issei named Kenichi Shintani, and then so he said, who was bilingual, so he put the business in his hands and then he took his whole family to see his mother. So we went on the NYK, Nippon Yusen Kaisha's, Tatsuta Maru, and we road on that boat and it was a, I think there was about twelve thousand ton. I thought it was large, but it was only twelve thousand tons. And we rode on that ship to Japan, stopped in Hawaii and I remember -- well, when we reached San Francisco, my brother's birthday, so he turned three at that time. I was still four and he turned three. And then when we reached Japan I turned five. But we stopped in Hawaii and I remember the kids swimming. They're asking people to throw coins and I wanted to throw coins. They gave me a few coins to throw out and they, they would dive for the coins and I remember, well, I remember also when we left, the throwing of the tapes to the ships and reeling on the side and then finally breaking as we left, so... and also getting seasick. And then when we finally reached Japan, when we got to Japan, who was waiting for us? My grandmother. My father's mother. She was not sick; she just wanted to see my father, and she wanted him to stay in Japan, actually. But she was... so we arrived there and my, and my, I had my, my mother's mother was a widow, too, widow, was living in Tokyo and so --

TI: But going back to, so when you got there, do you recall if your mother had any reaction, because earlier she had these difficulties with your father's mother, right? I mean, they, they didn't get along?

MT: Yeah, originally. Yes.

TI: And so here your grandmother essentially tricked your father to come visit her in Japan. Do you recall any reaction from your mother?

MT: Well, she kept that to herself. She didn't say anything. I don't know. I would, I would... she was still at that time a very dutiful Japanese wife, so she had to take all of that. It was, she would internalize it. When she cries at night my father would know that, things like that, but my father had to go because he is the eldest son of the clan, so he had to go see his mother. His mother was dying. And so get there and find that the case... and, but what happened with the, we were not planning to stay a long time, but what happened is that, 'cause he had a business to attend to, but what happened is that my mother's mother suddenly had a ruptured appendix and miracle upon miracle at that time, because in those days if you had a ruptured appendix you got peritonitis and you died, the Japanese doctor took everything, all her insides and washed everything out, all, took out all her intestines, everything out after they repaired it. They took everything out and washed it out to take all the poison out of her and then put it back in and sewed her up again. And my, and my mother had to take care of her 'cause my aunt was a schoolteacher, my uncle was a schoolteacher. They weren't around and they couldn't take the time off, so my mother took, took care of her and, and she did recover. It was a miracle that she recovered, but she did recover.

And meanwhile, to have five kids with her, and my father was the typical Japanese husband, doesn't take care of kids. Play with 'em a few times, but... so what happened is that, decided to take my sister above me and myself, Rumi and I, and send us to the country to live with my grandmother and then let my younger brother, who was so, only three years old, stay with my mother, 'cause he was so young. My, the older, my older brother and my, my older brother and older sister, they went to school in Tokyo 'cause they, they didn't know how long they would be in Japan, so they had to have schooling. So they went to school in Japan. And we were, we were left in the country and I hated it. I used to fight with my grandmother all the time. Constantly. I had a bad mouth and that was part of the problem. And one of the things the Niseis didn't have is having a grandmother, usually, didn't have a grandmother living with them, because in Japan the grandmother is the one that tells you your family history. Your parents are working, if they're farmers, working on the yard, they're cooking, they're doing all kinds of stuff, so don't have much time for the kids, but grandmother was now retired, would sit there and relate the family stories. Well, when I was in the country now suddenly I have a grandmother and she would relate things, and I would fight with her and then she would say, tell me that, "You shouldn't talk to your grandmother like that. I am a descendant," from, from her father's side, descendant of this famous Japanese family, one of the Minamatos, Shinra Saburo Yoshimitsu, and he was Minamoto Yoshimitsu, and his brother was a very famous warrior named Hachimantaro Yoshie, Minamoto Yoshiie. This is back in the year 1040 or something like that, fifty, somewhere around there, but anyway, and I would say, "I don't care." I would mouth off on her. "I don't care." And I was always in trouble, always in trouble with her because, one, I didn't, I'd rather be with my mother. I didn't want to be with them. My father was with us.

And then their, their practice out in that country, in that area was, was terrible. I'm used to eating eggs and bacon at breakfast and eating all kinds of things like that and sometimes would have fried rice for breakfast, and then at lunchtime we would have sandwiches or have other food, and nighttime we could, sometimes a steak or we have chow mein or some okazu or something. I'm used to that. Well, I go to country, they don't do that for kids. The men eat separately from the women. The children eat three times a day in that place. Okayu, you know what that is? That's rice gruel in which they would put a umeboshi in it, a plum, pickled plum, and they would then also give you some tsukemono, but -- and there was misoshiru, that's your protein -- and in that rice gruel would be one sweet potato, and I wanted the sweet potato, but I was a bad kid. My sister was the angel and she would milk it to the nth degree anyway. She was smarter than I was, so she would, my aunt and my uncle and my grandmother would always give it to her and then I'd be in a big fight again. Every day, and I was in terrible shape doing that. And they would never give it to me. Occasionally they might give me a little, but oh. So then I would look across and I see my father, my uncle, they're eating fish or chicken or something. I said, "I want that." He said, "Children don't eat that." But the women were eating the same thing we were eating, and I'm thinking, as I got older I said, how did they survive? How did these women survive? They work hard, they really work hard, and yet they didn't get much to eat. The only protein they got was the miso shiru, miso soup. Then as I got older I realized what really happens. When they cook, and I remember seeing them, they would taste everything to make sure it's right, so they were getting some of the proteins, some of the other things, but the kids never got it. Occasionally you might have fish. Occasionally, if they had a lot of fish. Occasionally.

So it was a very interesting... and a point that I lived that, the real frugal country life, but their, lot of superstitions and things there, like when, once they, they told me not to go -- we were the proper family -- not to go to a certain area of the town. The right people aren't living there. So they told me not to go, so I went. They caught me. When I came back they said, they checked my head right away. "Ah. We found remains of lice eggs," shell of lice eggs in my head, so they cut -- since I was from America I had long hair -- they cut all my hair off and that was, and I realized later that there was no way they could've found that because I didn't play with anybody. I didn't do anything. It couldn't have happened, but this is a way of disciplining me. But I was not a good kid. I, neighbor lady had died of a, of cancer, and so nobody, the superstition was you, you'll catch it, it was contagious, so none of the kids would play with the son who was my age. And so Grandmother would bring the, 'cause they knew we were from America that I don't have that prejudice, so bring the kid over, say, "Would you play with him?" I would say, "I won't play with him." Because she asked me, right? I just, I was just bad kid. Ten minutes later I'm over at the house playing with him. That was kind of, I was, I didn't like it there and I guess some of that was rebellion showing up, hoping they would kick me out and send me to Tokyo, 'cause my uncle would take my younger brother out to Mitsukoshi Department Store, up to the playground on top, buy, and they would always eat nice things and at suppertime they would always have a fruit. They're always eating, you know, and I had been there and that's how they ate, so I could see the contrast between there and with the country.

TI: So you were envious of your older brother and sister? They were in Tokyo and getting all this.

MT: Oh yeah, sure. Of course, course. And I was, I think I was, as I got older I think it was a rebellion on my part, so I was really acting out.

TI: Now, was your rebellion, I guess maybe, very different than, it was, was it partly because you were raised on Terminal Island and San Pedro in these early, early years that did this, or is this just your character? I'm trying to understand, how would you have survived if you had stayed in Japan?

MT: Well actually, I'd be oddball in Terminal Island because I'm vocal, I'm outgoing and those guys, within themselves they're that way, but with outside people they're, boys are not supposed to speak. They're supposed to be stoic. I can take pain. Pain is not a problem for me, but I'll be vocal, and that's something that you're not supposed to do in Terminal Island, 'cause they were, they were more Japanese than they were American, in those kind of behaviors.

TI: So essentially you're, you were kind of a fish out of water in both places?

MT: Yeah. I had my friends and we got along and stuff like that, but I would, I would think so. One is my mother had other interests and things, compared to the other ladies. Before she had kids and stuff, the principal would take my mother to the, on the red car, streetcar, all over San Pedro to Los Angeles to see the opera or see ballet or things like that, 'cause my mother had interest in those things.

TI: And that was because she, again, she was a little more educated, she went to teacher's college?

MT: There was, I think, maybe one or two other people that had some education. One lady was a university graduate and she was head of, her husband was a head of the organization.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.