Densho Digital Archive - Marian A. Ohashi Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

TI: Okay, so Marian, I'm gonna start, and today's date is Wednesday, June 29, 2011, and we're in Seattle at the Densho studios. On camera we have Dana Hoshide, and then watching the interview we have your husband, Bob Ohashi, and I'm the interviewer. My name is Tom Ikeda. And so today we're here with Marian Ohashi, and so, Marian, the first question is, can you tell me when and where you were born?

MO: In Seattle, Washington, Fremont district, next door to the library, Fremont Library.

TI: And what's your birthday?

MO: July 16, 1929.

TI: 1929, so that means you are how old? You're eighty-one?

MO: One, going on eighty-two. [Laughs]

TI: Eighty-one years old. And when you said you were born in Fremont, Seattle in the Fremont neighborhood, were you born at, in a house or at a medical facility? Do you remember?

MO: I think I was home, with a, what do you call, midwife.

TI: Midwife. And what was the name given to you at birth?

MO: Marian, and I don't know if they added my Japanese name later or not. I'm not sure. But my mother's friend named me, I remember, one of our customers, so I don't know if I had a, I must've had a middle name. I don't remember at that time.

TI: But later on you had a Japanese name, you said?

MO: Yes.

TI: And what was that?

MO: It's Ayako.

TI: Ayako. And do you know where Ayako came from, how you got that?

MO: Well, I think my mother said that was one of her, either teachers or something in Japan that she remembered well.

TI: And then the name Marian came from one of the customers?

MO: One of our customers from our dry cleaning store.

TI: And do you know why she said Marian?

MO: I don't know, but that was Jimmy Durgin's mother.

RO: Really?

TI: Good.

<Begin Segment 2>

TI: So I'm gonna ask now about your father. Can you tell me your father's name and where he was from?

MO: It was Gonnojo, and sometimes they spell it with one O and usually it was two, I mean two Ns instead of one, I'm not, originally. And then he's from Shiga-ken, Japan.

TI: And when did he come to the United States?

MO: He came on the day of the big San Francisco earthquake in February 1906.

TI: Did he have any stories about that, in terms of like, like... go ahead.

MO: Well, he remembers his, the buildings falling into cavities, huge cavities, and cars falling in there and buildings, and fire everywhere. That's what he remembers.

TI: Wow. It must've been frightening for him then.

MO: Oh yes, the day he, he's fifteen years old, comes from Japan all by himself.

TI: Do you know what, in Japan, what his family did?

MO: They had a farm. He didn't have any mother or father at six years old. His sister brought him up, a little older sister. She brought up three young brothers when she was twelve years old is what I understand.

TI: And what happened to his parents?

MO: They had a big epidemic apparently in Japan, something like a flu or some kind of big epidemic.

TI: Okay. So your father, San Francisco earthquake, 1906, he's fifteen years old, so how does he get to Seattle?

MO: He went on a ship with some, I don't know who or how, I don't really recall that early part of it. All I remember is what he said when he landed in San Francisco and the day of the earthquake.

TI: But did he come to Seattle right away, or did he kind of go other places before Seattle?

MO: I know, I'm not sure if they stopped one place first, at Frisco first or something. He mentioned Frisco. I'm not sure how that worked.

TI: Okay. So he gets to Seattle, what does he do in Seattle?

MO: He must've found odd jobs before he, and then he put himself through accounting school and then he opened up his own business in the dry cleaning business.

TI: So he's a pretty, what's the right word, entrepreneurial business kind of thinking.

MO: He worked a short while at Furuya, I think, and that, in, somewhere in between.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: Okay, and so when did he meet your mother?

MO: Well, actually he was gonna marry my mother's sister. That was already planned from Japan, I think, but my mother's sister and a brother, the two healthy ones out of the four, died in a big flu epidemic they had in Japan, and the two, my mother and her brother who were, who was sickly, they survived. And I don't know, it's a strange thing.

TI: So if I understand this correctly, so your father was supposed to marry...

MO: The sister.

TI: The sister, and because she died, instead he married your mother?

MO: Yeah, they asked him to take her because, in place of the one who died.

TI: And what, what was your mother's name?

MO: Suma, S-U-M-A.

TI: And her maiden name, do you know?

RO: Matsui.

MO: Matsui? Matsui.

TI: Yeah, Suma Matsui. Good. Okay. So she comes instead of her sister who died and marries your father. And so do they marry in Japan or in the United States?

MO: They must've married in Japan, huh? Yeah, probably.

TI: And tell me the age difference. Are they, was there an age difference between your mother and your father?

MO: Yes, of thirteen years.

TI: So your father was quite a bit older than...

MO: Uh-huh.

TI: And do you know how old your mother was when she came to the United States?

MO: She was, [to RO] was she eighteen like your mom? Or was my mom a little older?

RO: I don't know. Maybe.

MO: Something like eighteen.

TI: Okay, so if she's about eighteen your father, then, would be like thirty-one or so.

MO: Yeah, he was thirteen years older.

TI: So at this point, your father, does he have his business? Is he...

MO: He worked in several things. I have a picture of working in, [to RO] where was that mine or something down in Spring? It has the word Springs. Several Japanese people worked in that. Either it was a mining, or sawmill. It was a sawmill, that's what it was.

TI: And this was in Spring you said?

MO: Yeah. There's a name, [to RO] isn't it at the bottom of the picture, says Springs? In Washington somewhere. Big trees.

TI: Interesting. And so tell me, brothers and sisters. So they're now in Fremont, they get married, how many children did they have?

MO: I had an older brother who passed away, had two older brothers and then me.

TI: Okay, so tell me the names of your older brothers.

MO: My oldest brother was Yoshio Tom Tamura, and the next one is George Tamura, then me.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: Okay, so when we started the interview you talked about being born in Fremont, and so I want to ask sort of your childhood memories of Fremont, because it's not, it's not where very many Japanese lived. I mean, most people lived kind of more in the Nihonmachi area, and Fremont is, it's kind of...

MO: Yeah, there weren't any Japanese in our area, and I was the only one in my school, at B.F. Day School and then I started Hamilton, and I don't think there were any other Japanese. Lived next door to the library and I just, I had one very good Swedish friend. She, her mother was Swedish. But yeah, I finished B.F. Day School and then I was gonna start Alexander Hamilton, seventh grade, when the war came along.

TI: Okay. Before we go to the war, I'm just, I just want to get a flavor what Fremont was like for a kid growing up.

MO: Well, I didn't know any different, being Japanese I guess, from other people, and being next door to the library. I do remember this: my parents didn't want me to go to the library very much, and I didn't really understand in those days, but after I was grown up and they says, well, there was a lot of haiseki -- that was discrimination -- which they shielded from me apparently because I didn't know I was any different from anybody else, being Japanese from my Swedish friend. But apparently my folks felt discrimination, and there were no other Japanese in our immediate area. It was right by the Fremont Bridge.

TI: Yeah, so in particular they said don't go to the library, so what --

MO: Unless you had schoolwork that you had to have done.

TI: Because they thought that if you were there, there might be some discrimination against you? Was that why?

MO: Yeah, I think they felt that they picked on us to say, maybe you were talking or noisy in the library when you really weren't, or bringing up a small matter maybe. I don't, I kind of think that was part of it.

TI: So tell me why your family lived in Fremont? What kind of work did they do in, why Fremont?

MO: My father had a dry cleaning business, and I'm not sure -- we were there from about 1922 or so, I guess, before, when my older brother was born -- I don't know why they took that area. The closest one I remember living to us was the other dry cleaners, Hank Fukano's, the Fukano's up by, closer to Woodland Park, but they were the only other ones I remember.

TI: Now, do you know why your father, how he got into the dry cleaning business, why he decided that?

MO: No. He worked for Furuya for a while, and I'm trying to think how he got into the cleaning business. [to RO] You remember anything about that?

TI: The reason I ask is that was kind of a business, a type of business that quite a few Japanese got into.

MO: There were a group. They had what they, a club for the dye works.

TI: Right, because when I, it's interesting, when I find people who live in kind of different neighborhoods oftentimes it's because they worked as dry cleaners, kind of doing laundry or dry cleaning, and I was just curious about how they all got started.

MO: Gee, I don't know how my father got really into that, but there were a group of friends. They had a club or whatever they, a group that they met.

TI: And do you know anything about the club in terms of how big it was or how frequently they met?

MO: No. All I knew, the closest people to us were Fukanos, and their oldest daughter, Mitsue, is a Fukui, they had a cleaners. Betty Otani's dad had a cleaner. Betty...

RO: Shigahara.

MO: Shigahara.

TI: Yeah, so there are various families that opted to dry clean.

MO: I didn't know very many. I guess I was too young to really know too much about...

TI: Okay.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: Now, when I think of Fremont, I think of, geographically you have the locks right there, the canal, I mean the canal, yeah. And so were there, did you guys play down there, or what kind of things did you do?

MO: No, but the boys often went -- I was never allowed off the block -- but the boys went down that way, and we had, one of my classmates, Walter Sofer, died down there. They had, what do you call, those logs all in the water and I guess the boys used to walk on the logs and jump and things, and Walter got, fell in between the logs.

TI: Oh, and the logs kind of then, so he couldn't get up.

MO: Uh-huh. So he was in my class, so I remember that.

TI: So he drowned under the logs. So it was dangerous down there.

MO: Yeah, that was, it was dangerous. Of course, as youngsters you just think it's fun to play on the logs.

TI: And you mentioned that B.F. Day, so B.F. Day School is still there.

MO: Yeah, it's there.

TI: It's one of the historic elementary schools. You mentioned you were the only Japanese?

MO: After my brother, my brother was five and seven years older than I, so I think I must've been the only Japanese in that school at the time I was going, that I can remember.

TI: And what other races besides, then, you, the Japanese? Were the rest all white, or were there different races?

MO: Mostly white and, like I say, my girlfriend was Swedish, and being close to Fremont and Ballard, it was kind of Scandinavian population probably.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: Earlier you said that you didn't think of yourself as Japanese because you were around all your white friends. Did your parents ever talk about Japanese or how, how...

MO: I don't think so. I don't remember them, I mean, I knew I was Japanese, but it wasn't stressed as being different or much of anything.

TI: Now, when you were growing up, what language did your parents speak to you?

MO: We were mostly English, but of course we mixed certain Japanese phrases.

TI: And how about, for you learning Japanese, did you go to Japanese language school?

MO: Later they had, they enrolled me in this Japanese school at Green Lake, and I must've gone two, three years anyway. I remember it was a schoolhouse out in Green Lake. It was the country. It seemed far away at the time, but I guess it's not that far away now.

TI: And so it was a, was it a classroom just for Japanese language, or was it part of another...

MO: No, it was a Japanese school. They had, the principal and his wife taught, and there was another lady, real nice teacher, Mrs. Takagoshi. I remember that name for some reason. It was such a hard name. [Laughs]

TI: And so tell me, how many other students were at this, the Green Lake Japanese school?

MO: Well, it went from first grade up to when they were seniors, I guess, so I don't know how many there were, but I just remember two friends that I made there. One was Esther Hiyama, and Miyeko Hirano, the only two I -- oh, there was another girl, something Kashiwagi, but I didn't know her very well -- but I, where I made two Japanese friends.

TI: And so did the Japanese school have things like an annual picnic and things like that?

MO: No. I don't know if it was school that had the picnic. The picnic I remember, I think it was Shiga-ken.

TI: Okay, so a kenjinkai picnic.

MO: I don't remember that the school had the picnic, not actually.

TI: How about things like, earlier your husband talked about they had, on the Emperor's birthday they had a special celebration. Do you recall your school, like on the Emperor's birthday, doing something special or anything else?

MO: They did have something. They talked about Tennouheika. I remember that. Yeah, at Japanese school they mentioned Tennouheika and birthday, but I don't remember the celebration or anything.

TI: So tell me about the kenjinkai picnic then. What was that like? Where --

MO: Every year, well, that was either, I'm not sure if, there were two different ones. There was a Shiga-ken picnic and a dye work picnic, but I think it's the Shiga-ken one that I remember, and it was always at Lincoln Park. And I didn't know too many, all I remember were the two, maybe two families that, Japanese families that, and we sat with them. And one was the Kojima family, and one was the Shigaya's. That's all I can remember.

TI: That's amazing, your memory's good to remember all these names. And growing up, you talked about your playmates being Swedish, did you visit their homes when you were, like play at their houses and things like that?

MO: Yeah, Gloria Anderson and her mother and her father -- that was her, I think that was her stepfather -- anyway, they had this hotel right by the Fremont Bridge, and they had a lot of changeover in their hotel clients that came in on the ship apparently, from boats that were down on Lake Union. But anyway, Gloria and I were friends from before, I don't know, she was two or three, 'cause my mother used to tell me she used to have to change Gloria's diapers all the time for her. [Laughs] And then we went on to B.F. Day School and the Sunday school together. Yeah.

TI: Now, was your mom kind of a stay at home mom? Was she at home?

MO: Well we had a dry cleaning store and my mom and dad worked at our, and we lived behind our business, so they worked together and she did alterations. My father did alterations and pressing, and he blocked hats. Yeah, my father could do quite a few things. He was pretty handy.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: And when you think of the neighborhood, what kind of work did most people do in Fremont? What kind of, like did...

MO: Well, they were just ordinary everyday working people. Jim Durgin's dad was a milkman. He had a milk truck. He was my brother's closest friend. He was five years older than me. I didn't have any other friends close by the business. We were next door to the library, and then there was a Greek store at the corner and a grocery store at the corner, and a post office, a small post office next to it. There was a church up the street. What kind of, it was one of those, what do they call that, Tabernacle, at the end of the, it was a great big beautiful stone and brick building. Then there was empty lots, a big empty lot next to one of the store, the second store we had across the street. So there weren't very many residents actually on that street.

TI: So I didn't do the research on this, but I'm curious, I mean, Fremont's pretty close now to the, like Woodland Park Zoo, was the zoo there when you were growing up?

MO: Oh yes. Yes. It's about, almost two miles straight up Fremont Avenue.

TI: So was that something that you visited as a kid, the zoo? Was that a --

MO: We did. I remember my parents taking me up to ride on a pony up there and such when we were children.

TI: That's amazing, because I think when I was a kid they had the pony rides there.

MO: Uh-huh, I guess that's what we mostly remember. And the elephants and the, then they didn't have 'em for a long time, and then they got 'em back, I guess.

TI: Yeah, because Fremont's so close to the zoo, and then I think of Green Lake right there and the big park and all that, so it's interesting, fun place in terms of doing things.

MO: Yeah, it was. I remember some of that.

TI: And how about, I mean, this is a little farther away, but in Ballard, things like the locks and Shilshole, did you ever go visit those areas?

MO: No. We never really visited the locks or anything, but we had a couple of friends who lived, my parents' friends that had a dry cleaning business lived over there. The Kumakuras had a dry cleaning store that, we were friends with their family over the years and went to picnics together, but their children were all my brothers' age or older. And Katie lived over there somewhere, Katie, Frank, and Aiko, what was their last --

RO: Matsuda.

MO: Matsuda. Yeah. I didn't know them at that time very well, only as I grew up. See if there was anybody else... that's all I can remember right now.

TI: That's okay. So how about church? Did your family attend church?

MO: Well, there was a Baptist church right behind our house, and the missionary, Julia Bran, had come down and asked me to come to church there, so I went to Sunday school up there. It's right behind our house.

TI: And how did your parents react to you going to a Christian church?

MO: It was, I don't know, just took it as it came, I guess.

TI: Okay, so it was a Baptist church.

MO: Although, my parents were actually Buddhist and they supported the Buddhist church with activities and monetarily and visited. Later, after the war my mother went to the Buddhist church more regularly. Yeah, that's right.

TI: So before I go to the war years, December 7th, anything else before the war, like a memory or experience that we should talk about? I mean, at this point both your brothers are alive and they're doing well, was their life a lot different in Fremont than yours? You mentioned they kind of kept you on the block.

MO: Well, being that they were five and seven years older they, they were into different areas and friends, and I can remember my oldest brother probably had to babysit me all the time, so I followed him to places, but I remember when he used to take me to this little empty lot where we used to pick hazelnuts, and it was fun. It was, the only thing was hazelnuts, and you know what the outer coating is, real fine slivers on the outside?

TI: Right, right.

MO: My fingers would hurt for so long, but I just loved going with my brother, taking, what do you call, a wagon and putting a bunch of those in and peeling it, and later on we'd dry it all out and enjoy, I enjoyed hammering it and trying to get the seeds out. Yeah, my big brother was probably my main babysitter, was awfully good to me.

TI: It sounds like he not only took care of you but did fun things with you like pick hazelnuts. What would be another example of an activity with your brother that he would do with you?

MO: There was a place down there, what was their name? They had this elephant that you could climb up inside, and later they had it out on Aurora. Pietro. No, what was their name? Anyway, he used to take me down there and help boost me up and let me get up into the elephant.

TI: So this was just like a structure, kind of miniature --

MO: Oh, it was a life sized elephant, and it's out on Aurora now. You've probably --

TI: Okay. And so he would take you to that and you would play --

MO: To this place down not too far from our place. And the Pietro Monacles owned that, and he was friends with that family, or the children. They went to school or something. They were older than, but I remember my brother hoisting me up and letting me try to sit up there.

TI: Yeah, I'm thinking of that area, another kind of landmark for Seattle is now a park, Gas Works Park.

MO: It's not quite that far. It's a little, well, actually it's a little above it, isn't it? Yeah, because we're on Thirty-fifth and this is on Thirty-fourth, and then the canal goes right there.

TI: But did you, was there actually, like, a big gasworks there when you were growing up? I mean, what was in that area?

MO: There was that big, I don't know what kind of company it was, but it always had steam coming out of there and we could see it from our house and hear the whistle going all the time. I'm not really sure.

TI: Okay.

<Begin Segment 8>

TI: So I want to ask a little bit about your parents, and like your father, what kind of man was he? What kind of personality did your father have?

MO: He was an extremely honest, people depended on him. They felt he was so honest, every time, like when there was a club and they had, like Shiga-ken club and, what was the other one, they always made him treasurer. [Laughs] He was a very controlled man, very, everything had to be neat and clear and good.

TI: And what about his personality? Was he kind of a quiet person?

MO: Yeah, he was quiet on a whole, but he had a real sense of humor and he was really a lot of fun sometimes. He'd make little jokes and things. He, he helped me through a lot of things. And then he always had a garden. He was amazing. He could do a lot of things. He painted the house, and the garden, he planted just a little outside thing. Yeah, kind of amazing, he did many different things.

TI: Okay.

MO: Yeah, he was, I don't know how to say it, but he tried a lot of different things. Oh, one of the things he did was fun. He made sake at home. Yeah, in those days they were, I can remember he had that, some kind of a big taru and a great big rock to put on the thing that made the juice come out. I remember him making sake. They were experimenting.

TI: And did he enjoy drinking sake?

MO: Yeah, he enjoyed that. He had, especially New Year's, we always had open house New Year's and my mother made Japanese food, and people, that was a custom in those days, maybe you're too young to know, but the family, just the fathers made the rounds and went to each house and had, drank sake for the new year. And yeah, he used to do that. And he had a garden. He did quite a bit of gardening. Course we had the dry cleaning store, so...

TI: So he kept busy, a busy man.

MO: Oh yes. He was very good at doing everything.

TI: Okay. So next I'm gonna ask about your mother and what she was like, but I'm gonna have you lean back just a little bit.

MO: How many what?

TI: Just lean back a little bit so we can see your face with the lights. Okay. So your mother, tell me about your mother. What was she like?

MO: She was a quiet, reserved, very sweet lady. And she was thirteen years younger than my dad, so was quite a bit younger, but she was always helpful, and I'm sure she tried to teach me all the good and right things. Yeah, even after, when my father was gone and we took care of my mom quite a long time, thirteen, fifteen years, something, sixteen years. She was well.

TI: Yeah, you told me a story yesterday about how, when, after she came to the United States and she had your brother, first, your oldest brother, she returned to Japan? [MO nods] So tell me, tell me that story, what she did.

MO: Well, after she had my oldest brother, Yosh, Tommy, it was funny. She enjoyed that trip back home so much and she said she saw all her classmates and she was showing off her first son, and they were all gathered around and ooh-ing and ah-ing over the baby, all this. And she enjoyed that trip so much, and she talked about that a lot, how much she enjoyed going back home.

TI: Well, to the point where, I think you said, that she almost wanted to stay there.

MO: I think she probably wanted to, missed her friends, because she had left and she was the only one that had come to America apparently.

TI: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: So anything else before we go to the war years? Anything, other memories, other, yeah, anything that you can remember before the war?

MO: All I know is we had, we lived in that Fremont house for a long time. And the first time, I remember when our house shook so much and my father says, "Jishin." That was in the 1930-something or maybe end of '30s, and I didn't know what that, jishin, he says, "Oh, jishin." And then he says earthquake, and I could remember my father, 'cause he remembered the ones in Japan, but this was the first strong one he felt when we were living in Fremont.

TI: So, I forgot to ask, but can you describe your house in Fremont? You mentioned that the business was, was...

MO: On the street.

TI: Street floor.

MO: Fremont, on Thirty-fourth, Thirty-fifth Street, and then we had a downstairs basement, and then we had another level that went another flight of stairs down, and my father made a nice garden in the back. It was all just open yard, and I can remember my father planting vegetables and raspberries. He made the best raspberry bushes down there. Yeah, he, it was amazing. I don't know how he did all that hard work.

TI: And the living quarters, what, describe that in terms of...

MO: Right behind the store. The front was the mise, the store where we, where he did the dry cleaning business, and then we had a small room behind that, my oldest brother had one of those couches that you have a pull down bed. And I think my, I had a, I often asked to have my bed next to my biggest brother. He took care of me all the time. He was my main babysitter. We had a kitchen with one of those wood stoves, and a big oak round table, I think. I think that was in that house. And my folks had a bedroom, a small bedroom, and we had the downstairs basement. We did mochitsuki in the basement, my dad did every year. He had that great big wood hammer. [to RO] Do we still have that somewhere, that wood, big wood hammer?

TI: So a big usu?

MO: Usu and a, the wood hammer was, it was about this around and a handle was that long. Yeah, my dad used to make mochitsuki every year. We had Akimotos and two other families every year.

TI: So it was like a, a big, was it more like a party or just a work thing?

MO: It was kind of a work thing, and yeah, we always pounded the mochi and then I guess they must've done, made, I think my mom always made nishime and gohan, whatever. They all, everybody sat and ate, probably, after working hard and making those mochi.

TI: And was this kind of like right before New Year's or something, to get the mochi?

MO; I'm sure it was always.

TI: That's a good, that's a good memory. Good.

<Begin Segment 10>

TI: Okay, so I'm gonna now kind of go to December 7, 1941. And do you remember that day?

MO: Oh yes. That was Sunday, and the radio was blasting. My dad came and says, oh, he says, "Japan bombed Pearl Harbor." And that didn't mean anything to me, but he says, "You can't go to Sunday school today," and he says, "You better stay home." And then they were all glued to the radio, my oldest brother and George, my mother, my second brother, and I remember they were listening to it, but I know that my dad says, "You better not go to Sunday school today."

TI: And do you, did your brothers, like your oldest brother, they say anything to you in terms of, be careful, or anything like that? Do you remember anything like that?

MO: I don't really remember too much about that, except that they told me not to go out and play, said stay home.

TI: Now, at this point were your brothers in, what, high school? Or what, what were they doing?

MO: Let's see, my oldest brother, Tommy, was, started the UW already. I don't know if it was his first or second year. And then George was probably about a senior at Lincoln High School.

TI: So let's talk about the next day when you went to school. What was that like?

MO: I don't know. I don't think there was much ado about anything too much. I don't, I don't recall. Where was that? No, was that after the war or before the war? No, it was after the war. When I came back from camp I went back to Hamilton Junior High, I think, and everything was fine, but there was one blond boy going down the hallway and he says, "You're a dirty, yellow Jap," or something, and he shoved me against the wall. And that was the only incident I remember about, he was in, it was Hamilton, just starting junior high school.

TI: This is after the war, when you came back?

MO: When I came back.

TI: And how did that make you feel? Do you remember what that, how you felt then?

MO: Oh, I was terribly hurt, of course, but I didn't say anything, but I really should've spoken up or something. But I was quiet anyway, and I didn't say anything.

TI: Okay.

MO: I look back and think I really should've spoken up.

TI: So what about the business? I mean, did the business change after the war started?

MO: Well, of course, we didn't have our business anymore, so my, when my dad came back he got work at --

TI: But no, not, not after the war, but I'm talking right after bombing of Pearl Harbor. So those, the weeks right after Pearl Harbor, did the business change then?

MO: I don't really know. We had our same customers, as far as I can remember.

TI: Okay, so things seemed to be pretty normal after the war?

MO: Well, as a child I didn't notice anything. Maybe my folks did, but I don't think I remember too much.

TI: Now, did your father ever get questioned by, like the authorities or the FBI? Were you aware of anything like that?

MO: I think they came to the house a couple times, but I didn't have anything to do or hear about it.

TI: Okay, 'cause you mentioned earlier how he was kind of like an officer of the dye works, the treasurer and things like that.

MO: Oh, in the club?

TI: Yeah, so I was wonder if that caused the authorities to kind of look into him.

MO: They probably inquired quite a bit about that and didn't know if they were, I suppose at the time they said, I wondered if those clubs had anything undercover, you know? [Laughs] But there was nothing like that.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: So I want to now kind of, so what happened to the house and the business? When you started getting the orders that you're gonna leave Seattle, do you know what happened?

MO: Well, since of course the Issei were never allowed to buy property, we had leased the business. It went back to whoever it was, I suppose. I just remember leaving the house, just packing a suitcase, and my mother, we couldn't take much, I guess. We had to leave everything, as far as I can remember.

TI: How about your older brothers? Did they, anything happen to them during this time period? I mean, your oldest brother was at the University of Washington, did anything happen to him that you know of?

MO: No. We all went to Puyallup, I guess, and then, sadly, when we went to --

TI: Yeah, we'll come to that. I want to, let's stay with, let's stay in Puyallup first, okay?

MO: Puyallup.

TI: Yeah, what's your, what were your first impressions when you got to Puyallup?

MO: Well, course barracks like that were new and we were stepping in mud past ankle high and whatever. I never knew there were so many Japanese in, I thought, I says to my mom I thought we changed to Tokyo. [Laughs] I didn't know there were other Japanese people.

TI: And before, I should've asked this question, when you were in Fremont, where did they pick you up, the family? Do you remember where you were told to go to be picked up?

MO: You mean when the war, where they told us to go?

TI: Yeah, in terms of when you were supposed to go to Puyallup, you had to go someplace to get picked up to go to Puyallup, do you remember where that was?

MO: No. No, I can't remember.

TI: Like did you have go into the city, or did you stay in Fremont, or had to go to Green Lake? I'm trying to think where you might've gone.

MO: No, I just remember my mom packing a couple suitcases. I don't know where we were picked up, actually.

TI: Or if someone dropped you off someplace, like a neighbor?

MO: It's funny, I don't remember that.

TI: Okay. I was just curious for these outlying regions where there weren't that many Japanese, how they picked --

MO: No, there weren't, and I don't... I don't know where we had to go from there.

TI: Okay. No, that's okay.

MO: Yeah, memory's getting faded. [Laughs]

TI: I was just curious. So going back to Puyallup, so describe your living quarters in Puyallup. You talked about the mud and things, but where did you live in Puyallup?

MO: Well, we were in 36-7-E, and I remember the number, but I think that's the place we were with another family at first, 'cause I know we went to Idaho, we got put in with another family, a mother and son, for some reason. There were already five of us. I don't know why they put in two more people with, in our room with us, and we were already crowded. I remember those beds that you fold out, cots.

TI: But staying in Puyallup, so what did you do with your time in Puyallup when you're there?

MO: I don't remember doing much of anything. I know I used to keep a diary when I was about that age, and I don't know whatever happened to it, but I kept it two, three years at least, I think. And I probably wrote everything about how we moved and all, but I can remember the mud there. We were in Seventh Avenue. And then I remember the Alaskans, they were in the last row all the way down.

TI: And so when you say Alaskans, were people aware that there were people from Alaska?

MO: Well, they talked about it.

TI: Talked about it. Okay.

MO: Yeah, small place like that, people talk all the time. [Laughs]

TI: Okay, so then eventually, from Puyallup, then you went to Minidoka, Idaho. And what were some of your first impressions of Minidoka? What do you remember when you first got to Minidoka?

MO: I think the dust storms were one of the things that, my goodness, you never could believe the dust storms that we had. Close all the doors, windows, it seeped through everything. We couldn't shampoo the dust out of our hair, our clothes. I remember those dust storms so much. And then later it was mud up to here.

TI: How about food? What memories do you have of the food?

MO: Oh, the mess hall? That was, course the mess hall, everybody remembers we had smelt every day, and everybody hated smelt forever.

TI: And when you ate who did you eat with?

MO: Well, I was sad because my mother made me sit with her and eat. She was sick quite a bit, most of the time, and she was weak and she had asthma, and I brought food home for my mother and took it back and, back. My friends got to sit with their friends and eat meals together, and I envied them, and I was, I was pretty sad that I didn't get to do that.

TI: And your father, where was he?

MO: Yeah, he worked and then I went with him to eat sometimes, and the other times I would bring home food for my mother.

TI: And then your brothers, where, where did they eat?

MO: Well, George was always probably with his friends. That was Hit Kanzaki and those guys, his age friends. They were seniors in high school, I think, so they had a bunch of friends. And then my oldest brother worked in the hospital there for a while.

TI: Okay.

<Begin Segment 12>

TI: So let's talk about your oldest brother. I know this is a hard story, but tell me what happened to your --

MO: I don't know why, he was down at the canal and a bunch of boys were going swimming, and the current apparently caught him, took him, because to this day, like Shobo Tanaka talks to me, and he remembers, Shobo Tanaka and Takeshi Chikamura and a couple more boys. Imai, there was a Imai Yanagita. Forgot his first name. They were all, went down swimming often, and that day, I don't know what happened, but Shobo recalls he went to see and he says the current must've taken my brother 'cause he couldn't find him. Yeah, it was really sad because three days later some Japanese fisherman down that way found him, past the gates, down.

TI: So they found his, his body three days later.

MO: They found my brother. And the man was, I used to know his name, but I've forgotten now.

TI: Now, I'm thinking that you were pretty close to your oldest brother.

MO: Well, he took care of me all the time. He was my babysitter, I guess, yeah. He'd play games with me and he took care of me all the time.

TI: So this was a, must've been a tremendous shock to you.

MO: Yeah, very sad.

[Interruption]

TI: But can you describe how you found out about your brother and what happened?

MO: No, I don't really recall. We were, he always, I was twelve or, between twelve and thirteen. I remember when they told my parents, I guess, but I can't remember much else. I think I didn't want to... yeah, sometimes you don't want to remember things. Yeah, he was a very good, close brother to me, my chief babysitter.

TI: It must've been very difficult for your parents 'cause he was the oldest.

MO: Well, I think my mother was in depression for probably twenty years, when I think of it now. We wondered, I didn't know at the time what was wrong, but I look back and I can see she was in depression all, all those years. But it's only looking backwards that you, you can understand a few things.

TI: And your father, did, do you recall anything that your father said?

MO: Well, luckily my father was strong. He had to keep the rest of us going. He was a quiet person, but he was, he was very kind and thoughtful and caring. He didn't use a lot of words, but you know he was always there.

TI: And I know this is very hard, but how about the other families, and do you remember what other families did for you and the others? I mean, such a tragedy --

MO: During, during the time that my...

TI: Yeah, yeah, such a tragedy, what happened.

MO: Well, I can't remember, being in camp and twelve, I don't remember very much. I don't remember that. I'm sure a lot of people came to see my parents, but I don't remember them actually.

TI: And how about the service, the service for your brother?

MO: We had, I have those pictures of my brother, and I have the urn, and I have the picture of my brother with, at the service. [to RO] Do you remember what I did with them?

TI: Can you describe the service? I mean, what kind of service did they have in camp for your brother?

MO: It was Buddhist, I think, what my mother, 'cause my parents were Buddhist. I really don't remember much of anything anymore. Yeah, it's pretty faded now.

TI: Yeah. I'm sure something like that just really, it sort of, what's the right word, it kind of...

MO: You kind of block things out a little bit.

TI: Overwhelms everything else in terms of memories.

MO: Just remember the good things.

TI: So let's move on. I mean, let's think about other things that happened at Minidoka. Like school, do you remember much about school at Minidoka?

MO: In camp?

TI: In camp, yeah.

MO: I remember I was eighth grade. I remember the teacher we had for some reason, Mrs. Sisterman. She was a redheaded, nice teacher. For some reason I can remember her. Eighth grade. Ninth grade, I must've, when I came out I went to Roosevelt High School, so I must've been going into junior year, huh, then?

TI: Okay. For your parents, did they have jobs in camp?

MO: No. My father, of course, he owned his own business before the war, but when we came back then --

TI: No, I'm sorry, inside camp. Inside camp did they have jobs?

MO: Let's see, what did, my dad did, gosh, I can't remember right now. He worked every day. Where, what did he do anyway? Gee, I can't even remember now.

TI: And you mentioned earlier your mother was, had asthma, so she --

MO: Yeah, she was sick almost all the time, 'cause I remember bringing home the meals from the mess hall every day and taking care of her.

<Begin Segment 13>

TI: Now, after Minidoka, tell me what, where your family, where they went after Minidoka.

MO: Well, see, we came out of camp and then my parents stayed at the Shimizus' hotel on, what is that, Seventh and, close to Seventh and Jackson. What was the name of that hotel? Seventh and Jackson, Suzie Shimizu's parents had a hotel on, and they stayed there. I think I stayed one first night there, and then I got a schoolgirl job. And then my parents found a, where did my dad find a place? They eventually bought this house on Alaska Street and they lived there for many years, on, right up by the veterans' hospital, across the street from the veterans' hospital. But I was doing --

TI: But going back to your job, how did you get this job so quickly? So you're only there one night.

MO: I looked in the newspaper. [Laughs] Just took one that I thought was, I was trying to get back to where I could go to back to Lincoln High School, and I found an address that was close to Lincoln High School, and I called and I went to get the job. Well, it was, the street was a boundary line between Lincoln High School and Roosevelt High School, so I ended up going to Roosevelt High School.

TI: So that's interesting, so you, you're looking for a job, but you wanted to go back to high school, the same high school, or same neighborhood --

MO: As my brothers.

TI: -- and you, so you just kind of, that's how you chose, by the address.

MO: I chose that area.

TI: And so tell me about the family that you, you went to go work for.

MO: Well actually, the one that I worked for that was good was when I was in high school, the Kolb family. They had four children, and a Catholic family that were really good to me. And we first lived in Green Lake, and then they moved, went out to Des Moines, so I moved with them. I went to Des Moines, Highline High School.

TI: Wow, so that's pretty far out.

MO: It was quite a bit south.

TI: And your parents were okay with that, for you to go?

MO: Well, they liked the Coles, and whatever I did I was working, and I went, they knew I was in good, with good people.

TI: And describe what you did for the family?

MO: When I worked for the Coles?

TI: Yeah, what was your job?

MO: Well, they treated me, actually, like another child, but I did housework and yard work and took care of the kids and, which Lee laughs and says, "Yeah, we took care of you," the boys, the three boys and a girl. But he says, "Oh, we used to play tricks on you all the time." I says, "I know." [Laughs]

TI: So how much older were you than the children?

MO: Let's see, if I was fifteen going on sixteen, and Lee was eight, I think, when I first went. Eight, seven, eight, seven, six, or five. Peter was five, and Karen was one or two, I think.

TI: And so your job was to sort of help take care of the kids?

MO: Yeah, I did some laundry and housecleaning and watched the kids more or less.

TI: How much did the parents know about what you had just gone through? Not, being put in camp, the death of your brother, all that, how much did they know?

MO: How much do my parents know?

TI: No, how much did the Cole, the Cole family, how much did they know about your background?

MO: Oh, the family, I think they knew pretty much basically. Yeah, and they were good with my folks. My folks liked them a lot because we felt like, kind of like family anyway. They were awfully good people, the Catholic family, Frank and Charlotte. They were, they were, gosh, they treated me just like one of their children, actually.

TI: And when they were with you, did they ever ask you about, anything about your life or how you were doing and things like that?

MO: You mean after I left, or you mean during the time I was with them?

TI: Yeah, during the time you were there. I was just curious.

MO: I guess they pretty much felt like they knew that my family were good people and all. Yeah. They respected each other very much.

TI: Now, when you went to school at Roosevelt first, so how did the students treat you? You mentioned, yeah, how did the students treat you at Roosevelt?

MO: Well, I think they were fine. It was just that one blond guy that was, that showed any animosity, but I made some good friends over there. And of course I was still working, so I didn't get to see my friends too much, but Anna Versbrisky was one of my best friends, a Russian girl, and then Mary, she was English, she was real good. And then, since I was working most of the time, I didn't have any time to go out and play much.

<Begin Segment 14>

TI: And so I want to ask about your parents, so what did your father do when he returned to Seattle? Because the dry cleaning business was gone.

MO: Yeah, he didn't have that. That's why he, he got a job as a night watchman at the Smith Tower. That's the one I remember, that's the job I remember he had. And they respected him and depended on him a lot because, it's like my mother always says, he's baka shojiki, he's so honest and hardworking and goes out of his way to do extra nice things. And the lawyers that, offices that he worked in and cleaned, they liked him an awful lot.

TI: Oh, so in addition to night watchmen he'd also, like clean offices at night and things like that?

MO: Uh-huh.

TI: Now how long did he do that at the Smith Tower?

MO: Well, let's see, when he came back from the war it was 1945. [to RO] When did they have that house? They bought that house, they were...

RO: Stayed at the Star Apartments.

MO: First at Star Apartments, then they bought that house. They were there for how many years? During that time he worked at, because he had to take a late bus to go to work down at Smith Tower when he was living out in the, across the street from the veterans' hospital, that house that they bought, cute little house.

TI: So it sounds like quite a while, though. I mean, he worked at Smith Tower for quite a few, number of years?

MO: Gee, I don't know many years. What would you say, Bob? Fifteen years?

RO: I have no idea.

TI: Okay.

MO: Yeah, I kind of lost track.

TI: No, that's okay. I was just curious. It's such an interesting, the Smith Tower is such a landmark building, and I was just curious about that, just about the, in some ways, the history of it. Did he ever tell you any interesting stories about the Smith Tower or working there or any of the people?

MO: No, except the lawyers were all awfully good to him and depended on him a lot. He had the names of, they gave him different gifts and things, I remember.

TI: That's good. Now how about your mother, what did she do?

MO: She did housework. She was ill quite a bit with asthma and depression and things, but she later got, once she started going to work and doing housework she became healthier. And she liked the people that she worked for and they were good to her, and it was kind of nice because she, she'd come home and tell me what she did and about the people she worked for and about what kind of these people were, wealthy people of course, and what kind of work they did. And it was quite interesting, and I was glad she was healthier and happier.

TI: That's good. And then, for you, after Roosevelt you mentioned going to Des Moines and then the Highline.

MO: Highline.

TI: And so that must've been hard for you because you had friends at Roosevelt and now you're going to a new high school. Was that, was that difficult for you?

MO: Well, I didn't have very much time for friends because I went to school and then I worked, did housework and things where I lived, and then I'd come home and help my parents and do things for them. So I really didn't have all that time. I'm trying to think now.

TI: That's okay. How about your older brother, George, what was he doing during this time? After the war what did he do?

MO: Let's see. He didn't get to graduate Lincoln, so he graduated in camp apparently. From there he went to Spokane. He worked in Spokane for a while, first with, I think it was a cold storage kind of place, was it? He was with Hit Kanzaki and Hiro Hara, and who else was there? [to RO] Do you remember some of those other guys? They were your class.

RO: I know the guys, but I don't think I knew George in camp.

MO: I can't remember them. Anyway, he was there, Spokane, for a while. Wait, when did he come back?

TI: Well that's okay. I was just curious if anything happened.

MO: Yeah, I'm trying to think. He married Aiko. Let's see, did he marry the year after we were married? The 1950s, wasn't it?

TI: Okay.

<Begin Segment 15>

TI: So now I want to go to after Highline High School. So you graduate from Highline, what did you do after Highline, after graduating?

MO: I found another job where I could go to the University of Washington.

TI: And what kind of job did --

MO: Same kind, housework where I could get room and board and go to school.

TI: And what did you study at the University of Washington?

MO: Have a Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Science in nursing.

TI: And why nursing? Why'd you choose nursing?

MO: Well, because I got room and board. [Laughs]

TI: So you're, so very practical in terms of thinking a degree there, it would be a good job.

MO: That was probably, right, probably that was it.

TI: You could always find a room and board for your skills and things like that. Now where, did you practice as a nurse?

MO: I did, at Harborview for a while, even after we were married, huh?

TI: Because with your husband we talked a little bit about how, well maybe not exactly how you met, but then the three legged race.

MO: Race, yeah.

TI: So tell me about that. I mean, from your perspective, what...

MO: It was that SYNKOA picnic, wasn't it? [Laughs] I don't know how we matched up, but we won the three legged race, and I guess we must've started dating from that time on. I imagine that was the start of it actually.

TI: Now, so was it the type of thing where you were more interested in him, or was he more interested in you back then?

MO: I don't know. It was probably a pretty mutual thing, I imagine.

TI: Okay. Well that's, that's good.

<Begin Segment 16>

TI: So let's talk a little bit about your, your family. You and Bob got married, and tell me about your children.

MO: Yeah, we were still in Star Apartment, and then we bought our house up where we, up close to where... anyway, we had four boys. We've lost two.

TI: So can we just maybe walk through, or tell me the names of your...

MO: Arnie's the oldest. He lives in L.A. right now. And Gordy, we just lost him in January with lung cancer. He was, then the third one, Ross, he and his wife, the two girls, they live in, it's really Bellevue-Renton is kind of like, they've kind of changed over there on that south end. They call it Bellevue-Renton, I guess. And Bobby, our youngest one, we lost when we was six, of asthma, severe asthma.

TI: Okay. So Marian, I'm kind of struck by your life story, that you've had to deal with some really difficult tragedies, your older brother and then the loss of two sons, which, again, is very tragic to have to lose that. I mean, what, what keeps you going? How do you, what do you say to yourself to get through these difficult times?

MO: Well, I still have others to take care of. Our boys are, well, like one's in California and, Arnie lives in California. Gordy's gone. Ross is in Bellevue-Renton, and Bobby's gone. But we have two grandsons and a great-granddaughter that still live with us, so we're still with children.

TI: So the thing that keeps you going is you're still needed in these other areas that, and that helps you just keep going.

MO: I guess so. Yeah, I guess we do have to keep going.

TI: So when you think of your grandchildren, great-grandchildren, what are some of the things that you would tell them that are important in life?

MO: The things that are important?

TI: Yeah, what's important to you?

MO: Well, we hope we're trying to set good examples for them.

TI: And what are, when you say set good examples, so what are the, the characteristics or things that are, that you try to set good examples about?

MO: Well, I suppose you're honest always from the beginning and try to live the right life where you're doing all the right things, being responsible and caring for others, and try to contribute in some way.

TI: So another thing that strikes me is during this interview, I don't detect any bitterness about your life or, like the tragedies or being put in camp, I mean, why is that?

MO: Everybody's life is probably, I think sometimes it's already mapped out for you, and you do the best you can. I mean, I'm sure nobody's life goes scot free. We all have hurdles of some kind or another, big or small, and we have to learn to keep going for the sake of others as well as ourselves.

TI: That's good. So I'm at the end of my questions. Is there anything else that you wanted to say or anything that I didn't ask you about that you'd like to talk about for this interview?

MO: You have any, Bob? [Laughs]

TI: Yeah, Bob, is there anything that I should ask your wife while, for, to preserve for posterity?

RO: Sixty years.

TI: Sixty years, so you've been married sixty years? [MO nods] So this is your, you just, like, finished your sixtieth anniversary?

RO: Just finished it.

TI: That's amazing. I get, it's interesting interviewing both of you, I sense this really strong connection between the two of you.

RO: Definitely.

MO: Well, I think having gone through this many years and these many things, I mean, you can't help but, we depend on each other a lot. Yeah. Moral support is everything.

TI: So Marian, so thank you so much for doing this interview and telling me about some very difficult, difficult things. So thank you.

MO: Well, it's nice that you're putting so much time into working on a project like this. It takes a lot of your time and things to take care of here. I think we can appreciate you, too.

TI: Well, thank you.

RO: It's a very important project to be...

TI: Well, the lives that you lived through, we can learn so much from, and I think it's not just preserving history, but it's really an opportunity for future generations to learn from you, your husband, and others who went through this time.

RO: Sure.

TI: So that's what I so appreciate, so thank you for doing this.

MO: Well, you're working very hard and we appreciate all your hard work.

TI: Thank you. Okay.