<Begin Segment 11>

TI: And when you talk about being Jewish, how aware were you of what was going on in Europe with the Jews, with the Nazis? Did you, did you know about that or hear about that?

MA: Not until it became, like when it was in 1939, when the Germans had gone into a few of the countries, I didn't know too much about that, I didn't understand that. I guess I didn't gain enough knowledge to be able to think, oh, how terrible. It wasn't until it really became a big thing and the U.S. got into it.

TI: And this was more after the war that you heard about them?

MA: About who?

TI: About the Jews in Europe?

MA: Oh, no, no, during.

TI: During the war you started to hear about that.

MA: Yeah.

TI: And what was your sense then? What did you, what were you hearing?

MA: I was hearing things about what Hitler's thoughts were, and one time someone said, if a person listened to his speeches one would be mesmerized, and so even if you didn't understand the language. And at one time there was this, an occasion where I specifically listened to him speak, one of his orations, and I thought, that guy, he's not a smart man, he's not a lot of things, but he does reach the people. And of course mostly with what they want to hear, because as of World War I, as we know, the Germans had been totally deflated and they needed to be brought up a few steps. And he was doing it. And so, but then I think we all soon learned what he was professing and what he was teaching, and what these people were following, the kind of person was dangerous and obviously was.

[Interruption]

TI: Well, it's actually getting to what I'm, maybe I'm asking, is did you see any similarities or connections to what, in some cases, as a Jew, realizing what the Nazis did to the Jews in World War II, in some ways, to what happened to Japanese Americans and Japanese during World War II in the United States, and then with Muslims today?

MA: Yes, yes. So this is what, today, right this moment, I feel that when... well, I wonder, when will people stop hating and when will people stop doing what they're doing man to man? I think of Irish against Irish, Jew against Jew, Muslim against Muslim, I mean, in between them even, much less their enemies who might be total strangers. And so I get very, very upset about that because -- and you hear the term, we all hear the term, "he's worse than an animal." Animal kills to survive. What does man kill for? What does man kill for? What does he get from it, man to man to kill? And so I'm sorry, I get carried away, but I get very, very upset with that because through history we should learn. But again, through history it's always been war and kill and hate. And so... anyway, sorry. (Narr. note: In answer to your question in re: similarities and connections. I cannot compare what the Nazis did to the Jews during World War II, and what took place when the Japanese were sent to internment camps. The Nazis' intention was to annihilate an entire people -- to wipe all Jews off the face of the earth. None should exist. This does not discount now strongly I feel that the internment camps, to which 120,000 Japanese Americans had been sent, was a terrible thing. It was wrong. It is a shameful part of our history.)

TI: Well, it's interesting to talk to you, as a Jew, because there are Arabs who don't believe that Israel should be.

MA: Existing.

TI: Existing in the Middle East, so there is this, sort of this conflict going on, and yet you would profess sort of acceptance of Muslims who, many of them are Arab, and that, that shouldn't matter. Is that what you're saying?

MA: You mean insofar as... no, you'll have to kind of word that --

TI: Yeah, I guess that was, that wasn't a very good question. I'm just trying to get, so that you seem very open to being accepting of Muslims, even though there might be Muslims who might be anti Israel.

MA: Right, right.

TI: But you believe that it's important to be open to them?

MA: I believe so, yes. And I'll tell you what else I believe. I have heard things from people I know really well that, to this day, are anti German, and then I feel you cannot, I don't believe I can blame the generation of Germans today -- I mean, there's always sporadically the certain extremes. I mean, we know the extremists, but I'm talking in general, that the German kids, young people of today, they probably, the majority, are trying to wipe that part of history out of their lives. It's never gonna be wiped out, but then they don't want to practice as their forefathers did, and so I feel I can't hate the young Germans. I can't just not, I just can't feel any more than I can hate the Japanese today because of what happened at Pearl Harbor. And the Muslims, and you're talking about the Palestinians and the Jews, well, I have to believe that amongst the Palestinians -- there's hate between them, there's no question about it -- but there's got to be some that are not feeling that way, and as well as Israelis. I mean, they're both at fault as far as I'm concerned, I think they're both guilty of some things and maybe for good reason things are happening. I don't like to say too much because I'm not knowledgeable of all, about every aspect of it, however, I feel that there are good Muslims, there are good Palestinians, there are good Jews, there are bad Jews, there are good -- I mean, there's good and bad, like my dad used to say, there's a rotten apple in every crate of apples or oranges. But then I just feel that if we just hate, consistently hate, hate, hate, we're not getting anywhere.

TI: And do you think your background, living in a very multiethnic sort of neighborhood, upbringing, does that help you shape your perspective in terms of seeing that more easily?

MA: Yes. Yes.

TI: And do you find that sometimes when you're with others who perhaps don't have as diverse a background or experience, that they perhaps have a harder time seeing that?

MA: I think they probably do. (Experiences such as those I've had helps one to see how others live. If one never steps out of his or her own back yard, one's world is small and limited. We all should get to know our neighbors. We would be richer for it. My life has been enriched because of the diversity I've experienced.)

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.