<Begin Segment 23>

TI: So, Frances, I'm looking at the time. We have about fifteen more minutes and I want to get you to Chicago. So we're in the early '70s, you did a practice up through the '90s.

FC: Yes, I was in practice for about twenty-five years.

TI: And during those twenty-five years did it remain more youth or did that transition in terms of what...

FC: I had a good percentage of teenagers, but they started to grow up and then I didn't want to work, and the kids that were coming from diversion tended to be younger and younger. They were now eight and nine years old, and I wasn't that interested in working with that population and was getting more Sanseis into my practice as well as individual hakujins that really wanted to work on their own issues.

TI: How about Niseis? Did you ever have very many Niseis?

FC: The Niseis were tough.

TI: And why is that?

FC: It's very difficult for them to talk about their problems. The only ones that came were couples that argued all the time. They were on the verge of breaking up, and they were so disenchanted with each other and it was layers and layers of discontent. They were very, very hard to work with. Tried doing some groups, but it, that was also difficult. My best work with, in the Japanese American population was with young Sanseis who were really looking for answers to their situations. They felt so distant from their parents, and a lot of 'em were given conflicting messages and they didn't feel warmth or love from their parents, and they were really hungry for connection. And so I was able to work with several of them. I worked with some who had marital problems, but generally the Japanese Niseis would come in crisis, and once the immediate crisis disappeared, they disappeared. And so it was hard to keep them connected, but they, but a good number of 'em did come, and most of 'em were not married outside the race. They were mostly Japanese couples.

TI: Okay, so you've had some experience with the Japanese American community on the West Coast, in Los Angeles, and then in --

FC: Go to Chicago.

TI: -- 1998 you moved. So unfortunately your husband died in 1996.

FC: Yes.

TI: And then your daughter was living in Chicago, lives in Chicago.

FC: Well, she was, she was living in San Pedro, was working and was supposed to marry the boy next door, a hakujin kid that grew up with, but he wasn't ready. He was wishy-washy and he didn't know what, so things got really bad and in the process she changed jobs. She was then working for the fashion industry. She got tired of not having medical insurance and having payroll be so shaky, so she finally got a job as a, what do you call, pharmaceutical rep, 'cause in those days the pharmacy company realized that an expert salesperson was better than somebody who had a premed background. They used to hire only people who had premed and biology backgrounds, but they were lousy salespeople. And so they opened the field up to people with a strong sales background. My daughter had a good sales background, so she got hired on and was being trained for this pharmaceutical rep job, and Martin Luther King was one of the hospitals that she went with a seasoned salesperson, and that's where she met her husband. [Laughs]

TI: This is in Chicago?

FC: Here. At Martin Luther King here, before the hospital closed. He was standing knee deep in blood in the ER.

TI: Oh my.

FC: But it's funny 'cause he looked at her -- he came out from Chicago hoping to meet some Asians 'cause he didn't want to marry a Jewish gal and he had in his mind that Asians were either very ambitious about education or dedicated to their families, and so he thought he had a good population to look into. So he's doing his residency in emergency medicine at Martin Luther King and, here, my daughter arrives. [Laughs]

TI: Okay, so they get married and she moves to Chicago.

FC: Chicago.

TI: And so after your husband dies they encourage you to come to Chicago to live with them.

FC: Chicago.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.