<Begin Segment 21>

BF: Well, I was going to ask you specifically about you as a lobbyist because I assume that was your first time ever lobbying for anything, and was that intimidating or how did you, how did you learn to be a lobbyist?

CK: Oh, yeah, that was quite an experience. It came that, it developed that Ron or Ruth would call me and say, "There is going to be a hearing," or, "There is going to be a committee meeting," and I gradually found out all these steps that have to be done for a bill passage. You have this committee and then it gets out of committee. It's sort of a mini version of what happens at the national. And so this was a great learning experience. So then he'd want people to come down so I'd gather people and we'd go down to Olympia to show faces, Asian faces, and then hearing, and then testimonies. State employees... okay, there was Mae Ishihara and Frank Kinomoto were the only ones in our area who were actually former state employees, so we got them to go down for the testimony part of it. And, of course, for them, Frank did pretty well, but Mae was petrified. You know, she'd never gotten up and spoken before. Here, the microphone and all these legislators sitting around and... so I kind of had to lead her and steady her and so, she did okay. And so, this helped. And then there is that, and then you go through the House, and you go through the Senate, well, it was introduced in the Senate by George Fleming. That was interesting because Ron Sims was George Fleming's aide and he said, "I think Senator Fleming will introduce it." But it was several months that we couldn't get a commitment that we asked Ron about that. But Senator Fleming, here he is, he's a black legislator and the thing is, he might get flack from his constituents. Why is he pushing something for Japanese Americans? You know, why isn't he doing something... and he had that to contend with, too.

So and then anyway, eventually in January of that session, he did introduce the bill and then it was up to us to get the community lobbying support in. So a lot of it was saying, "Where do we go? What should we do?" And they'd say well, come and talk to Senator so-and-so or Senator this-and-that. Kent Pullen was a very conservative one, but the point with him was the Constitution. You tie it to the Constitution, then you get support. And we found that along the way, so he came on board. And then it was getting appointments and going down and talking to 'em, maybe it's only five minutes, but you get the story across and being an actual internee helps because you can say you were there. Then it was walking the halls, you know, just catching anybody whenever you can. Stopping and saying, "Do you have a minute? Could I talk to you?" And then, or if you do stop by and they aren't there, leaving a note, "Stopped by, would like to talk with you again." I see you're smiling because I think you went through some of this later on.

BF: Right. Well it just amazes me, though, how, how un-intimidated that you always were. That you never hesitated to stop anyone and even if they would say, "Oh, you know, I'm really in a rush, I've got to go." You were very persistent. And I just sort of wondered where that came from.

CK: Oh, well, persistence, that is the word for lobbying. That is almost the key word, persistence. I mean, this is what we found lobbying for the national bill, is, time after time going after them and never taking no, whatever excuse. But let me finish with the state bill. So then finally, and then Naomi Sanchez was in Governor Spellman's office and that was very helpful, so eventually, you know, as we got one after another in terms... and Gary Locke and Art Wang did the House side and we were -- you know, with those legislators there -- then I found that at one point the bill then goes to the Rules committee and unless the Rules committee lets it go out, then it could just get bottled there. So then I found that John O'Brien was the key to that. So I tracked him down. I couldn't get him. Finally, I think I went to his house, 'cause he lived in... [Laughs] And so then he agreed that he would let it out and so then it got out of Rules and then, so it passed. And then we had that ceremony where Governor Spellman signed it and we all went down.

But you know, we sort of kind of sighed and said, "Well, we've done this now." And then Tim Otani was in the regional office and he said, "Why don't we do the city?" [Laughs] And I said, "Okay, it's your baby." So he checked with Dolores Sibonga and there were three -- actually there were five employees in the city, only three of whom were eligible and he and Dolores pretty much carried it through and I just brought people to attend the hearings so that there would be Asian faces. And then that passed and Mayor Royer signed that.

And then Mako says, "Hey." She found this story about the school clerks way back then, where they were just fired. They had to resign because of Jimmy Sakamoto, and this and that, and that story came out. And Mako Nakagawa said, "Let's get the school board." And I was kind of worn out by then. And so I said, "Well, if you can get somebody..." so she knew T.J. Vassar on the school board and so she got him to introduce the resolution. I found the school clerks, I guess they were, several who, (we'd) urged them. You know, we got to show people that you were there and what happened to you. So they again -- see, most people, most of us were never used to standing up and testifying in this kind of atmosphere. And so I think at least three or four agreed to. And so they testified and then there was one more meeting and the school board passed the resolution. And I found out later, Mako said that if she -- in fact, just recently when we were doing our own project -- Mako said after she heard the stories from the school clerks and how emotionally it was so difficult for them, then she backed off. And she said she didn't want -- I said, "Mako, I thought, it was because you wanted it and was pushing it..." [Laughs] And she said, "Well, it just kind of went ahead on its own." Anyway, but anyway, it was interesting that these things kind of develop and have a life of their own. And so... but then we found out from Mike Hoge, who was a school board attorney who was so cooperative from the first phone call, he was right back of us. And he tried to get it through, the $5,000 for each of them and found that according to the law, the school board could not pay that kind of money without special legislation. So, that meant another bill at the state legislature. Gary Locke said he would do it. But it took two years for different things to happen, so it was two years later that he introduced that bill. And so this is where you came in, Becky. Where you helped, Jerry Shigaki and you... and I was having health problems, and you, I was so grateful that all these young people were willing to, when you went down and did this lobbying.

BF: Little.

CK: And you went into that and here you were, you were college, were you in college or high school?

BF: Yeah, college.

CK: College. May thought you were in high school yet... but anyway, that was my first meeting with you and I was pretty impressed.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 1997 Densho. All Rights Reserved.