<Begin Segment 20>

MN: Now for yourself after the war, have you revisited Tule Lake or Heart Mountain?

MU: Heart Mountain I have not visited. I know there is going to be a museum, something being built there, but I don't have the interest because my stay there was so short. I didn't participate except at the school. I do remember the Heart Mountain, the mountain, there is a Heart Mountain. Tule Lake, Marvin was there I was there, I recall, I remember a lot of things in Tule Lake that I did with my girlfriends. And so he and I decided to take one of the pilgrimages that Jimi Yamaichi and Hiroshi Shimizu and the young people set up. And so we got on the bus from Berkeley and I said, "This is a celebrity bus." Yuri Kochiyama was on there and Mary Tomita, the author, Betty Kano, the artist, and (Delia Nakayama) --

MN: (Nakayama)?

MU: Is she the one what was in Mississippi? No, that's someone else. There's another lady, she moved to Mississippi, she was writing for the Japanese American newspaper, she had a Japanese name, too. And Stephanie Miyashiro, Stephanie, she was on that bus. Mina Fallenbaum, she's the daughter of Betty Kano, she's an activist, she's from a mixed marriage. And but anyway, we would say, "Oh my goodness, this is a celebrity bus. What are we doing on a celebrity bus?" But we got to meet them so it was a really wonderful trip for us. The bus trip alone and meeting people on the bus alone was a wonderful experience for us, and to go to Tule Lake, and some of the Niseis there was interesting. I think that most of the people there were Sanseis. Some of the Niseis there, they said, "Our kids wanted to go." And so it seemed at that particular one there were not that many Niseis there wanting to go back. Maybe they'd done several years before because they are, every two years they had these. So they'd been there but that particular trip some of the Nisei we met said, "Our children wanted to come with us," so they were there which I thought was a wonderful thing. Because some of them stayed there and some of the memories that they had there when it became a segregation camp was not, I think, too happy for some people. See we left... I had my fun there and I left with my friend and my girlfriend to Heart Mountain. [Laughs]

MN: And what year was this pilgrimage you went to?

MU: Beg your pardon?

MN: What year was this pilgrimage that you attended?

MU: It was 2000, I think, or 2002. I think it was 2000. We thought it was 2002 because I think it happened to be the same year we went to the Oberammergau in Germany, and that's held in every ten years. And I think it was that same year but... and yet maybe it was not. Maybe it was the year 2002 because the Oberammergau, I don't know if you're familiar with Oberammergau in Germany is the passion play, the passion play about Jesus Christ, the passion play Methodist is held every ten years. And we were supposed to go on it in '96 but I had my surgery so we said, "Okay, let's wait 'til the year 2000 when the passion play." So I'm not too sure because that would mean two trips, the passion play trip in the fall and the Tule Lake which is in July, fourth of July weekend, very hot. So I'm sorry, I don't whether it was the year 2000 or 2002.

MN: Now how did you feel returning to Tule Lake?

MU: I didn't have any strong feeling about it except remembering our unit, our block, recalling my life in Tule Lake. And I like I said, they were happy times there, especially with my girlfriends. And so I recall those days there with pleasant memories, and yet I realized what it had become after we left. And so when I talk to some of the people who were there after we left, I didn't ask a lot of questions, but I'm thinking they must have had different memories of their life in Tule Lake. I didn't want to pump them as to what they went through because it hadn't been very pleasant for them to recall. And then having gone back with Marvin was extra too because he had spent his life there as a Placer county youth landing up at Tule Lake. For us to go together, it was a memorable trip for both of us. But I do recall how hot it was. We're not used to that heat living in the Bay Area now.

MN: Why did it take you folks that long to return?

MU: For the pilgrimage?

MN: Or to return to the camp site?

MU: Why did it take me or Marvin that long to return... I don't know the answer to that. I took a little interest in it when they said a pilgrimage to Tule Lake, but I may have thought of it in terms of after we left, you know. And then also how they must have felt being there and how they must have felt of those who left there. They may have had some feelings, if we go back to Tule Lake we go back as people, "yes-yes." And some of the people who went to Tule Lake came from other camps. They were not all the ones that were just there, and so it must have been an unpleasant situation for some of the Niseis. I mean, if they had their choice they may have had a different place to go to but being Niseis, maybe younger Niseis like people my age they did what the parents chose. And in some cases it might not have been what they would have liked to do. And so thinking there may have been some uncomfortable unpleasant feelings for them, I had nothing against them but I felt that there might be a little something, I do recall that. So whether that kept me from saying, "Oh, let's go," I don't know. So I think I was quite careful when we did go because of that feeling, you know, I try to think of other people's feelings and to have compassionate feelings for people who may have gone through difficulties. But we both said, "Oh, yeah, let's go," and so it's the same feeling he had as I did, let's go.

MN: Well, you have answered all my questions. Is there anything else you wanted to add?

MU: Because it's my time. As a person, I think what I would like to add is we've been very blessed. Our whole family has been very blessed as I've stated, and when my mother came to live with us for twenty years and she was no problem to us, she loved Marvin and Marvin respected her. So I felt very thankful for that and she had told me, "I'm ready to go to meet my husband. I had promised him when he passed away that I would do my best to take care of the family, to feed and clothe them and to educate them." And she said, "I think I have tried my best and all of you seem to be doing okay and so I feel relieved and happy, and any day I'm ready to go." And so I'm very happy and thankful for that with my mother. And for our personal life, we have been very blessed with four children, two and two, and five grandchildren. When I hear of some hardships and physical problems that some people have, I feel very thankful. And as a person I think, what I tell myself is I wanted to be a happy person. To be a happy person you need to be thankful. If you're thankful, there's a lot for me to be thankful, and it helps me to be a happy person. And with my grandchildren, I babysat our twin grandsons, they're twenty-six now, and I always told them, "I want you to be happy, to be happy." And like I said with me to be happy, number one, I have to be thankful to Him. And so I feel very happy at this time and I've told the family that if He calls me up tomorrow, I'll be happy. I've lived a happy life. Thank you.

MN: Thank you.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.