<Begin Segment 18>

MN: Is there anything else you want to add? You've answered all my questions. Is there anything else you want to add?

MS: About the school?

MN: About your life, your experience?

MS: Well, this Peter Irons that got the twenty thousand dollars for us, wrote in this story that I have that he went to this Antioch College and went into... says, he went in the, by Horace Mann, he says, how can anybody think about dying without doing something major? That's why I'd like to see that law passed, but I don't know who will finish the job, but I think it's a possibility of getting another billion dollars for sixty thousand people that never got paid. You have a law passed saying they, the 442nd vets that deserve the money and vets like me never got paid. They should get paid. They were in camp and also were willing to fight for them, but they never were repaid, nor the parents that were, gave birth to these boys that were willing to do it.

MN: So you're talking about the ancestors, the people, because these vets who died or the Isseis who die, you're talking about, if they're already dead, you're talking about their, people who came after them, paying those people, their children? That's what you were talking about?

MS: The children, yeah, talking about should be able to recover the, when they lost their money the family certainly never used it to rehabilitate their life. So I think it's possible to pass those laws, but even if they don't get the money, at least we felt that we did what, tried to finish the job that we started. But this way, not even trying, you can't, didn't finish the job, whether we get the money or not, but the fact that we felt the loss deep enough to do something about it. That's a legacy our parents taught us. The fact that the 442nd boys did what they did do to, I don't know if Niseis think the way I do, but if they thought that way, I think they'd really accomplish something.

MN: What do you think about the --

MS: What?

MN: What do you think about the guys who protested in camp?

MS: What?

MN: What do you think about the guys who protested in camp?

MS: Well, just like me, arguing a law case like it was an emotional experience, that how could they be that stupid, like I was. There are certain procedures you have to follow, to do, to get a reasonable chance of success. You should follow the basic, well, even if they told us the basic, we're so emotionally involved that we couldn't see it. That's not, so to me, that's not education, so I said, well, how can you be so dumb? That you didn't know why you were failing, but that's part of the things you learn from life. Well, you don't even remember evacuation because you weren't even born at that, but that's, but what about guys like us? We were born and went through the experience and we're still dumb, and we don't know what the value of education is. But to have that law passed, it's easier than going through the courts to get the injustice corrected. I can look at myself and say, well, if I were to do it over again, I would change my whole attitude. Instead of being a belligerent, how can you be a wise man to get things done that you want to get done? That's all, what an education is for, not how smart you are. I don't think I'm a dummy, but I'm not very wise. But anyway, that's the way I look at myself, is that if you were to do it all over again, what would you do and change? And I come to some conclusions that my wife is not happy with what I'm doing. She says wasted a lot of time, but, but I'm happy that what we did do in Japan and the army and so forth, that I wasn't a coward. [Laughs] When we think about the fights, that silly fights that we were in, I said, so it's alright for high school, but nobody really got hurt. But when you realize that, what kind of mistake you made and your actual performing, I can't help but be disappointed with it.

But that's why the 442nd boys and what, the one story with, when I was in combat with Hitoshi Yonemura's younger brother, was in the 24th Division, in the 8th Army, but he was telling me that because of his brother, Hitoshi -- you know Hitoshi? He was the Japanese yell leader at the time of camp, World War II at UCLA, and the rumor was that some of the pilots of the Japanese airplanes were wearing high school rings of American high schools, so his mother used to be accused, because of guys of like Hitoshi, he became a, had the yell leader at UCLA and so forth, because of people like him the Nisei boys got a bad name, but they were pro-American, and gave his mother a bad time. Then when I got back in the States I heard about him and I wanted to find out, two guys, actually three, that were at UCLA when, became officers out of the ROTC, and they're, two of 'em were killed in action, Hit Yonemura and Kei Takahashi. He's 379 boy. And when I came out and found out he was buried up here, Hitoshi Yonemura, I was, and he's L.A. boy, I was wondering why they buried him up here, 'cause I remember a story, his younger brother telling me about how his mother was blamed for having a pro-American... well, that's fair, but the brother asked me, he says, isn't there anything we can do? Well no. I didn't know why they were buried, but that's always been a question mark in my mind, that here's a guy was pro-American, did everything he could to advance the Nisei, that we have the Japanese inmates blame his mother for raising a boy like that. Couldn't understand.

But anyway, that's how narrow some Japanese thinking was at that particular time, but to me there's no excuse for that, but how deep feeling, human feelings are is hard to determine. But I think that's one of the sad stories, that to me, he's a hero, but for him to be blamed, mother to be blamed, and for me to tell his brother that there's nothing we can do. I think there is certain thing we can do, telling the story. Whether it does any good or not, I don't know, but I think it's a good story. Kei Takahashi is another ROTC, but he was the scoutmaster of Troop 379, so he was another one that contributed to the Nisei future. You ever hear of him? No. When you go back to L.A., if you ask the Troop 379 about Kei Takahashi, to me, those guys are heroes many times over than guys like me. I was decorated, but I don't know the reason why. Just being a good boy, I guess. But anyway, it's, some of the stories that I would like to recall about these guys I knew are good stories, but nobody to really tell 'em to, or to know. But to think of them, that, in 1910, to have Japanese immigrants denied American citizenship and forty years later have the law changed, it's easier to do that than to go through the court cases, but why we didn't do that, or we don't do that, is one of the question marks, but, well, you're over, you were born after the war, but one of these days you'll understand what, what... but the record is good, but why we don't do anything about is... like Cedric Shimo's story is, is so good that, I have all of his papers, but what his parents, what he went through and what his parents through really... you know his story, yeah? It's unbelievable what, how inhuman, inhumane we, man can be. But there's the stories like Francis Uyematsu coming after that you couldn't even ask that they would go out of their way to do, so how do you balance these stories out? Your interview, I will say, is telling these stories, but I hope you think, learn something that, that man's inhumanity to man is unbelievable, but man's humanity to man is believable. But spoiled brats like myself can even think that way, I wonder what the hell is wrong with all of us. Well, even doing, you're doing what you're doing, I don't know the reasons why you're doing it, but if I interviewed you, that's why I would... what, what motivates you to continue this thing?

MN: Well, we'll talk about that later, Marshall.

MS: Huh?

MN: We'll talk about that later. Let me thank you, and we'll talk some more.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.