<Begin Segment 22>

MN: Now, during the 1960s, did you ever have an opportunity to return to the deep South?

LW: No, I didn't. I wanted to go, so committed to it because a friend of mine who was already a pastor of Glide Church, African American guy, I knew that he was, he had gone down there. And after he came back... and there were others across the country that were joining in, non-African Americans joining, I felt like I wanted to go, so I checked in with Cecil (Williams) and, the executive director of Glide Foundation at that time, about my participation, and they said, "The thing we need most, because there's so many people there, we don't need any more bodies. We need some funds to support." So I think I did something to raise funds and gave it to Glide to support. But the other thing that I did was to, I knew that the Presbyterian church pastor, Nicholas Iyoya -- the Presbyterian church is a historically Japanese American congregation -- so I said, after Nick returned I called him to say, asked him, "Nicholas, would you be willing to change pulpits with me? You come to my congregation on Sunday and give your statement about participating in that and I'll take over for you in your church?" So we were able to work an exchange in that way, and that was, it was good for the congregation to hear and to see another Asian American, a Japanese American person who had experienced the march, the civil rights struggle in the South.

MN: You know, but some people might say, well, this is not a subject that affects Japanese Americans, why are you involved?

LW: Yeah. Oh, right from the beginning I could connect the experience of injustice of the camps to, to the injustice that was going on anywhere, specifically at that time with the, in the civil rights struggle. And the more I experienced that, the more I began to see the connection, the stronger I felt about that and tried to help people make that connection. It didn't always happen, but I think some of the progressive folks, especially the younger folks, began to make that kind of connection.

MN: But some people also say that Sunday mornings is when the United States is the most segregated, African Americans go to the African American church, Japanese Americans go to the Japanese American church, and the Caucasians go to the white churches. And what are your thoughts about that when someone says something like that?

LW: When it came specifically to the African and the white, well, I said yeah, that is the most separate, and I think early in that, in my ministry, that was not, I felt like that was not right that that was the most separated, the most segregated hour. But when, as I experienced the, what the impact of the civil rights struggle was, is and was at that time, the impact of the Asian American experience is and was at that time, I began to see, yeah, it may be, there may be some reason why it is the most segregated hour, because we who have experienced what we've experienced in terms of injustice, being second class citizens, being at home among people who have experienced the same thing, feeling a sense of ownership and community of our own experience, it's reasonable that we be, that we, it is the most segregated hour. And if we are to ever overcome that, then there are other things that need to happen. It has to be a two way kind of thing, the majority community willing to come and make concessions or be transformed to the extent that they understand what we went through, as well as our transformation, relating our experience to making, helping our community, both the community out there and the church community, be whole, then it has to come together. And it takes a lot of transformation on the part of the majority and the minority communities.

MN: Now after seventeen years with Pine you left and you went out to Glide Memorial Church.

LW: Yes.

MN: And Glide is a very, very progressive church. I think it's one of the most progressive in the nation, is that correct?

LW: Could be. It was at that time, I think, something really out front, and some would call it avant-garde, but I think we were really in the forefront of what we, what I would call urban ministry.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.