<Begin Segment 18>

TI: Okay, good, so let's talk about, then, what happened next. And so you said things were kind of the same for a while, but then eventually your family was moved again.

MY: Well, the life remained pretty much status quo. There were all kinds of ups and downs of the camp life, riots, etcetera. In a way it was very involving, and in a way I was completely out of it. Politically I was not involved. I was not involved with anything, however, during that time, certain events did happen to my own personal life in that I was sent to the stockades.

TI: Well, this is at Tule Lake, right? So we're, so Topaz first, then we go to Tule Lake.

MY: Yeah. Well, the things that happened at Topaz was the rumor which happened to become a fact is all "no-nos" will go to Tule Lake. Okay, so be it. That was a fact of life, and I accepted it. It wasn't a matter of accepting it; it was a thing that had to be done. So I don't remember the specific situation of the last moments of Topaz, but whatever happened happened, and I don't even remember the ride to Tule in the train. And before I knew it I was in the middle of this large area with a horizon at least broken by Castle Rock here and Abalone on the other side. Beyond that, it was another camp.

TI: And how would you compare Topaz with Tule Lake in terms of security. I mean, were there differences in terms of, maybe, guard presence or, or procedures, things like that?

MY: Historically, I am aware that they doubled the fences, they almost doubled the security of the military personnel in addition to the trucks and tanks and such, but at that time, for me, I wasn't aware of any of this. We were aware, hey, we better not go near the fence. That was about the extent of the situation of Tule Lake as compared to Topaz. And there was no need for us, for anybody, including me, to go near the fence, to contest this issue. We just accepted the fact that there were more military around, and I wasn't aware of the increase in military personnel. Living in an enclosed area of nineteen thousand people, you don't have to be aware of any of this, until certain occasions arise, like the riots and such. My life was pretty self contained in working every third day as a fireman. Firemen worked two, three eight-hour shifts together. And then a group of people that I was with included one Mr. Emerick Ishikawa, who happened to be Mr. America, bodybuilding, in nineteen, early '40s or late '30s.

TI: Who was that again? I don't know this person.

MY: Emerick Ishikawa

TI: And he was...

MY: Was Mr. America in bodybuilding.

TI: Mr. America.

MY: He happened to be in camp, and he happened to be in this group of people I knew. So we started doing weightlifting, and so we did weightlifting every third day for three, four hours a day and so I was in very good shape, as you can imagine, day after day of weightlifting for three, four hours a day. So that was the second day of a three day work, three day passage of time, and the third day was, a group of us who were musically oriented started just playing music together, primarily Hawaiian music. And that's what we did every third day, played music. I happened to play the guitar. I'm almost tone deaf, but nevertheless, I played the guitar. And my brother played bass, and my other friend played the ukulele and guitar, others sang, so we had a music oriented group of people, no formal group as such, but a bunch of fellows getting together.

TI: Now, did you guys ever perform?

MY: Oh, we were finally, finally asked to perform for the Caucasian celebration of some kind every so often. Not too many times, but I remember several times.

TI: How about inside camp? Did you --

MY: Inside we didn't perform.

TI: Now why was that? I mean, you would, were well enough known so that outside you would perform.

MY: There were other groups performing. There were many different kinds of organized groups of people, baseball teams, sumo, you name it, flower arrangement, tea ceremony, music groups, orchestras. And we were not particularly well known, I suppose, because we didn't, we did not try to become well known or anything. We did it just for our self enjoyment.

TI: So it sounds like you were really busy.

MY: Yes, it was a three day cycle.

TI: I mean, this three day cycle of work and then weightlifting and then the music.

MY: Music group.

TI: Now, were you aware of some of the activities of the, like, pro Japanese groups during this time?

MY: Oh, you couldn't help but be aware. Every morning there was a "Wassho, wassho, wassho" group of the Hoshidan, the younger people.

BT: Well, that didn't start until about a year later, after segregation, the militant...

MY: Well, we're already in Tule Lake. Exactly when that started I don't remember, but I would agree with you, it was toward the latter part of all of this uprising, difficulties in camp management.

TI: But how about just the general atmosphere? Going from Topaz to Tule Lake, was there a difference in terms of the feeling or atmosphere inside the prison?

MY: Yes, there was, but I can't put my fingers on what the difference was. There was a definite difference of, the word comes to my mind of calm, peaceful atmosphere of Topaz, versus kind of volatile-ness underneath this calm of Tule Lake. There was something boiling, so to say, and there was that feeling. You couldn't put your, I cannot put my finger on that at this point.

TI: Interesting.

MY: And then these things boiled over in terms of the unfortunate situation of the farm truck turning over, and that just happened to be an accident, it just happened, and it just happened the person died. And that was, in a way, because it just happened, it was no big deal until the funeral issue came up. As you well know, with the Nihonjin, funeral is a very important part of life pattern. When the administration would not allow a large funeral to take place -- and the large funeral fit into part of this boiling-ness of the... yeah, by this time it was well known that certain political groups were identifiable, so these groups were trying to get a large funeral to push their own agenda. Well, people like me who weren't particularly involved with, alright, so be it. If they want a large funeral that's okay with me. So everything that subsequently followed was a situation where I was not involved, but I was involved being a resident of Tule Lake.

TI: Interesting. So any follow up, Barbara? Okay. I'm curious, kind of going back to your three day routine, so one, you're very disciplined to do these things, but you're around kind of the same group, the same music people and the same weightlifting people.

MY: Well, in addition to that I had other groups of people who were friends of mine whom I visited at different blocks for different reasons, because a different reason for knowing them.

TI: But how would your, the people who knew you at Tule Lake, how would they describe Morgan? How, whenever you're with a group and people, there's certain characteristics, like this one might be the funny one or whatever. If they were to describe Morgan --

MY: I can't answer that question. I don't know how they saw me.

TI: So that was something that wasn't really on your radar. You just never really...

MY: It never occurred to me in any way.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.