<Begin Segment 15>

TI: So after Santa Anita, where do you go?

MY: Topaz, Utah.

TI: Okay, so again, this is a little unusual because most people at Santa Anita went to Jerome, Rohwer, Heart Mountain.

MY: Yeah, because they were from Los Angeles area.

TI: Yeah.

MY: And the evacuation, War Relocation Authority, no, it was WCCA at that point, tried to keep the San Francisco, Bay Area group together. We were part of that San Francisco, Bay Area, so they put us together with the San Francisco, Bay Area group, which was, from Tanforan they went to Topaz.

TI: Again, it, it just, it's interesting how inconsistent things are. Up in the Northwest it's almost like we, people felt that they intentionally broke up communities and sent them different places rather than trying to keep them whole, and so I've just, it's interesting in this case they went out of their way to keep the San Francisco people together at Topaz. So it's just, yeah, feels inconsistent in terms of the government policy on that. So you, so you go to Topaz, and what your impressions of going to Topaz?

MY: Well, here I am, a high school student. I did a lot of reading, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Tarzan series. Edgar Rice Burroughs over here, Zane Grey over there, at the Presidio Library -- I'm very familiar with that library -- were the Zane Grey books, among which is the Riders of the Purple Sage. Are you familiar with that?

TI: No, I...

MY: Describes the Topaz desert. Topaz is located in Sevier Desert, so after Zane Grey's I was expecting the beautiful Zane Grey's description of the desert. I wouldn't say disappointed, but I said, where the hell was Zane Grey writing from? [Laughs] No, the, my impression of Topaz was essentially that it was a terrible place, and under the circumstances it's only logical that it was a terrible place, being a camper after a while. Pristine desert is a beautiful place. You get a lot of people trampling, that sand becomes ash really and it flies with the first step. When you have thousands of people walking back and forth after construction, then when the wind blows that sand becomes fine, fine dust, and that dust is everywhere. It was interesting. I had read about dust storm coming through, over through the desert. It was very, actually, wonderful, and I use that word, the beauty of a sandstorm, this wall of dust rolling towards you, something you just don't believe that could happen and then you get immersed in that dust as it roars right on through. So that was kind of the experience I was having. Dust, dust, dust.

TI: And during this process, do you recall any conversations with your older brother as this is happening? Do you guys talk a lot about what's going on with the two of you and the family? Do you ever...

MY: No, not particularly. Both of us, well, yeah, both of us accepted the situation. Nothing can be done about it, shikata ga nai.

TI: So at Topaz, did you do things like school or jobs? What did you do at Topaz?

MY: Well, naturally, just as in Santa Anita, you try to find something to do. Well, I find out that I was ready to go to Stanford or Berkeley after Lowell High School. They wouldn't let me do that that point. I wasn't able to do it for a number of reasons, and what else can you do? So there werea number, series of questions that another Nisei asked me, and finally the question came up, "What did you do most of the day?" Well, described an average day, including reading the four San Francisco newspapers. My parents took Hokubei and Nichi Bei newspaper, Japanese, but we didn't take any of the English papers, so I went across the street. Lived right across the street from the fire station and over there I got to know the fellows, and I started reading the San Francisco Chronicle, the Examiner, Call Bulletin, and the San Francisco News then, partially to occupy one's time. I would like a social reason to get to know the firemen, and in the process got to know what a fire engine looked like. So the question came up in this interview, what'd you do at the fire station? Read the newspaper. "What do you know about firefighting?" I could tell you what a two inch hose is, a coupling, male, female, four inch coupling, hose, etcetera, etcetera. "Oh, you know something about firefighting?" I said no. "Well, you know what a hose is, what a coupling is. You're a fireman." So I became a fireman at Topaz.

TI: Good. And that was just because you wanted to read the newspaper. [Laughs] That's good. But what about school, because you had not yet graduated from Lowell High School?

MY: No. Psychologically I was finished with high school because technically by April, senior high school is not involved in studying, I knew, and graduation was too close, in June. And my mind was also like that, so in my mind I was through high school, so I just did not go to high school in camp, although there were schools in camp, as you know.

TI: So what did you do for a high school diploma? Did you ever get one?

MY: I was a university professor without a high school, as a high school dropout. [Both laugh]

TI: Okay, that's what I was wondering.

MY: That's true. I was a full professor as a high school dropout.

TI: And so just never came up, you just...

MY: The issue never came up. After I came, this is going ahead now, after I came back to San Francisco to continue my education I enrolled at City College in San Francisco, then, "Where'd you go to high school?" Lowell High School. End of question regarding high school. Transferred to Berkeley. "Where'd you go to school?" I'm transferring from City College, San Francisco. "Where'd you go to high school" Lowell High School. No question. Lowell High School has such a good name academically, people mention Lowell High School, just assume you're a graduate and you're a good student. That's what they assumed. [Laughs]

TI: That's good, so yeah, you were a high school dropout.

MY: High school, I was a high school dropout.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.