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TI: So describe the day that you left San Francisco. What was that like for you?

MY: Well, I remember the night before we slept in an empty house on Washington Street. Everything had been stowed at the Gunst home. And we woke up and we were told to go to Van Nuys and Jackson Street, I think it was, and so we went there and there were all the other black headed Japanese. Quite a few, I never thought there were so many Japanese in that area, but there they were, all ready to be evacuated. We were sitting on our baggage on the sidewalk waiting for something to happen. And then nothing happened until the buses came up with the army in full uniform with guns. We were told to get into the buses, and that was the first step of the whole evacuation process.

TI: Now, were there non-Japanese there to see you off or to --

MY: There were... we were the first group of, group out of San Francisco. There was nobody to see us off, no Red Cross with coffee and donuts, no church groups or anybody. We were just the people to be evacuated and nobody else.

TI: And so the buses came.

MY: Then the buses came, and that was the first indication, with the soldiers herding us into the buses, that this was part of the whole process. Up to then it was all volunteer. At that point it was no more volunteering. There were guns on our backs.

TI: And how was that for you? I mean, I don't know you that long, but I would sense that that would not sit well with you.

MY: There was not a question of sitting well. It was the thing to do because there was no other alternative. There was really no other alternative.

TI: But in terms of just how you felt then, as you, because you made this distinction of, up to that point, yeah, you had orders to do things, but you were under your own control. At this point --

MY: It was, as I say, volunteer on our part.

TI: But at this point it, it changed. This is the moment that you are now under guard, in prison.

MY: Yes.

TI: And so did you make that distinction when that happened? Was it something in your mind that you recall thinking about?

MY: No, it was flowing from volunteer to non-volunteer.

TI: And so where did they take you in the bus?

MY: The buses, I don't remember where it took us, but I know there was only one train station in San Francisco, which is Seventh and Thompson. And that was the only police, I mean train station in San Francisco, so that's where they took us. We didn't cross the bridge, so we knew we were still in San Francisco. And then we got onto the train at that point. I'd never really been on a train of any kind, but I never realized such old, rickety trains were still in service. The woven seats, rattan woven seats in back, you just in movies kind of a thing, and that's where we were sitting in, old, old trains. And that took us, the guards at both ends of the train to pull the shades down, so we naturally followed orders and pulled the shades down, although we peeked under to see where we were going. And that went on for hours and hours. Gradually we left San Francisco and kept on going, until I, not recognized, I saw trees with oranges. Well, my calculation says this must be southern California, Los Angeles area where oranges grew. At that time oranges still grew in Los Angeles. And sure enough, we were in Los Angeles. We pulled into the Los Angeles train station for whatever reason, stopped there for a while. We could not leave the train. And then train pulled out, and the next stop was in Arcadia, California, where the Santa Anita racetrack is. And that's where we got off, and somehow, I don't remember walking, we were in Santa Anita racetrack.

TI: And that's a little unusual because most San Francisco Japanese Americans went to Tanforan.

MY: Yes.

TI: And Santa Anita was mostly L.A. people.

MY: It was. We were the, as I said, the first group out of San Francisco. They didn't know exactly where to put us. There were rumors that we were going to be sent to Manzanar, because Manzanar was already being occupied. Tanforan was not ready to be occupied. So we really didn't know where we were headed, and we were headed to where we were headed. [Laughs] We didn't know. And that happened to be Arcadia, California, which was walking distance, essentially, in Santa Anita racetrack.

TI: Was your group always kept together as the San Francisco group at Santa Anita? Were you guys kind of this...

MY: Not in any group as such, but more or less as a group. We were identified as the San Francisco bunch.

TI: Now, any stories about differences between San Francisco and L.A.? Were there any, like, interactions that were...

MY: Well, naturally, there were interactions because I was... I have to back up a little bit. One thing you have in a camp, if I may use the word "prison," is lots of time, and something else you have is nothing to do, lots of time means nothing to do with nowhere to go. All camp, prisons description. And so the logical thing to do is to find something to do. Well, in a camp like the camp we were in, only thing you could do is to volunteer to do something, so one of the things we volunteered was to, to do was to make camouflage nets for the military, until that became an issue with the Geneva convention, which says prisoners cannot make war related items. So that stopped, but I think that was after I had started working in the Santa Anita, in the office assigning barracks to new families coming in. I did that. I remember banging up a pickup. Well, when you don't know how to drive and you drive a pickup in a very narrow place underneath the grandstands, you naturally crash up the pickup, which I did. Why did I crash a pickup? Oh, a child ran in front of me. Naturally, I could not hit a child, so I hit the grandstand. I still remember that. [Laughs] And that was one of the issues, another issue was making camouflage nets. And another thing was just sitting in the grandstand watching the sunset. There were very few other things to do, walk around a little bit trying to find something, trying to find where Seabiscuit had his barracks.

TI: And how was it for you, here, again, we looked at pictures beforehand, and so I saw pictures of you right before the war started. You were a good-looking young man, you're seventeen years old, you're now put in a place where there are literally thousands of, you're now in a place where there are thousands of other Japanese Americans with no time, with lots of time on your hands. So the social scene must've been pretty interesting for you.

MY: When I got off the train, the first thing that really hit me, my god, they're all "Japs," all Buddhaheads. [Laughs] I never thought there were so many Japanese Americans, Japanese in United States. Well, it was a camp for nineteen thousand, so it was a large, one of the larger...

TI: But not only that, but the average age of the Niseis was about your age, seventeen, eighteen years old, and so there were lots of Japanese American young women, seventeen, eighteen years old. And so what was the social scene like for you?

MY: I had no social thing with young girls at all at that time. I was with, a friend of mine used to play the sax, and he was, had a bum leg, so I used to carry his sax for him, so wherever he went to play his sax I went with him. So I was somewhat interested, got interested in music, and so I was around that orchestra most of the time, other than working in the work situation at the office. So Santa Anita was occupied between working, volunteer work, and where my friend played the sax on free time, and then roaming around trying to find something interesting to do.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.