<Begin Segment 8>

TI: Okay, so we're gonna get started again. We're talking a little bit about just the race relations in Walnut Grove. I wanted to ask, what did your parents say about white people? Did they, did they have, did they talk about...

MB: Japan, you said?

TI: No, like your parents, their views about white people. What did they think about whites?

MB: Well, you know, they're prejudiced people, but at the same time the Japanese wanted to be at the same level and kind of respect them in that sense, that they want to be economically at the same level. And many of them were (okay), like Alex Brown, the banker, and that family owned the electricity, they owned the land and we paid rent to them. I mean, he let us build our homes on their land, but we (paid ground rent of) thirteen dollars a month, (...) and we did that while we were in camp. We, I guess my father thought we might lose it if we didn't pay it, but somehow -- his salary was sixteen dollars a month. That was the highest salary in camp, sixteen, twelve, and nine.

TI: So with that money he kept the rent payments going so that he could keep the, keep the property?

MB: Property. (He also paid property tax). And it was a good thing 'cause people in the cities were renting, so it was difficult for them to find housing. The community, I think, might've pooled some money together to buy a house. As in Berkeley they had a church, (...) the congregation, bought the building and used the upstairs for families (returning from) camp, temporarily and then they'd move, but that's where I stayed when I went to college and it was very nominal (rent).

TI: Yeah, but going back to your parents, when they, when they talked about Alex Brown, how did they talk about him? Was he someone that they admired, they thought he was a good person? I mean, what, what did you, how would you describe that?

MB: I really didn't know as a child, but then, I don't know who, if it was his brother who did the, controlled the utilities, but it wasn't really bad feeling. But he owned the land, never sold the land until the Japanese got together back in the '60s after camp and managed to buy it, but before that we didn't have to pay for water. Of course, the streets were a mess. There were all these potholes and they never repaired that. Let's see...

TI: Well, let me ask another question. I'm curious, how did your parents feel about the Chinese, 'cause there were lots of Chinese in that area? What did they think about --

MB: They weren't living in the Japanese area. It was pretty --

TI: Well, they weren't living there, but they lived either in Locke, which was just a half mile away, or previously they lived in the other part of town. Did they have, did they talk about the Chinese, and what was their view?

MB: I guess not really, kind of suspicious about other people that they had no knowledge about their background. And, but later on I guess you had to communicate with 'em to get along and have good business establishment, although there wasn't much going to and from. The Japanese had their own stores and whatever, the drug stores and...

TI: Yeah, I was wondering about, maybe, if there was any tension during the nineteen, when you were, like, a child in the 1930s, because Japan was at war with China and here you had two fairly large communities, if there was ever any tension because of that?

MB: Not that I know of. Had their own problems, just trying to make a living, and so I don't know. I was too young, I suppose. But I had Chinese friends in school, and it's only been recently that I've stopped communicating with my friend who lives in San Leandro, but I, we were really very good friends and she would send me things to camp, like, what do you call, the films of the camera that we were unable to purchase, and I don't know how she managed to get money. They were poor as we were. But we kept in touch for a long time.

BT: So was your common language English?

MB: Was...

BT: Your common language.

MB: Yeah.

BT: Did you speak English at the Japanese segregated school?

MB: Yeah, pretty much. (We were punished when we spoke our parents' language in school).

BT: And then at the Japanese school, were you speaking English?

MB: Were we speaking English?

BT: Yeah.

MB: We spoke (both languages). I mean, we went to segregated school, we went to Japanese school, our friends were Japanese living together, and so English was not really a common language amongst the community, Japanese community.

BT: Oh, so your primary language at home and even at school was usually Japanese?

MB: Yeah. So when we went to camp, camp had people from L.A. and various big cities and they all made fun of us 'cause we had a Japanese accent and spoke a lot of Japanese, and we felt downgraded and... within our own Japanese community in camp.

TI: Let's start going into the war years. Or is there anything else you want to do prewar before we, we move on?

BT: Well, how did you feel about attending these segregated schools?

MB: Well, you don't even think about it 'cause you're forced to do it. There's no choice. We didn't realize that probably, so teachers were not really great. They were probably sent to our schools 'cause they couldn't make the grade, I suppose. But some, old, old teachers, they went to the normal school -- they called it normal school -- for two years and they were teaching, and like Mrs. Rhodes, she lived right on the border of Japantown and she was kind and we all respected her. And I remember my mother making me take her flowers, and Japanese tea, we got teas after a funeral. That was a return gift. We gave money at the funeral and the families would give those who contributed money the teas, Japanese tea, so we had tons of tea and we'd take it to Mrs. Rhodes. She loved it.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.