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PT: Some of the Los Angeles guys, many of them were in groups. And I forgot what the name of their group was, but they would introduce me to their groups. And one of the oldest ones was called...

TI: And when you say "group," it's kind of like a gang? Or what do you mean by group?

PT: No, they were athletic groups.

TI: Okay.

PT: And one group, one of the oldest ones was organized by a woman who saw these boys just running around and she organized them. And then the only one that I thought was being very un-Japanese was the San Pedro boys. They called themselves the San Pedro Yogores, and it didn't matter whether it was Japanese or what. They would play baseball, and this guy gets a hit and runs to first base. And the first baseman has his hand out looking at him, and he'll aim right at his ankle and break it. And I saw that, and I said, "Jesus Christ, that's sick." And it is sick. Why take it out on one another? That's how angry they were. They lost all sense of decency. And I can understand that. They were told, "You've got to move out in two days." But when you think about the Bainbridge guys, "You've got to get out today," and you didn't see that kind of thing with them.

TI: Let's go back to that, that's interesting. So this group, you're almost saying it's to be expected. They had to leave in two days and so you weren't surprised. But yet, my sense is you didn't see that with other groups.

PT: Yes.

TI: So why is that? Why did this group stand out in that way?

PT: You mean the San Pedro guys? Well, they called themselves the Yogores, so they're going to play out that role, I think. They were angry and Japanese or no Japanese, take it out. And then this guy has probably a broken ankle or something, and I said, "How sick." And then there was a lot of Hawaiian guys and they're older. And one of the Hawaiian guys said, "Are you a catcher by any chance?" And I said, "Yes, I used to catch and play third base." So I played softball with them, and we lost most of the games, but that didn't matter.

TI: And characterize the Hawaiians. So these are young men from the islands, and so how were they different than, say...

PT: They're older. And they were there for work, many people from Hawaii came to work.

TI: I see. So they didn't come from the islands, they were on the West Coast.

PT: And they were older or in their thirties already. So I played softball with them, and they took me to the bachelor quarters. One of the guys gave up his housing, and they had a casino there. And so that's where I learned gambling. I never went gambling before, but I knew a little bit about craps. But they played the craps differently. They called it Shi-go-ro, "four five and six." But if you throw a six it doesn't mean that you win. Now, the other person who covered your bet, they get to throw the dice. That's the difference. The other thing is they had this card game, and I think the Issei played this game called...

TI: Hanafuda?

PT: Hana. And you could win with a low card as well as with a high card. And this is where they were playing for money. Then also, they were covering horse races. They agreed that they would be based upon the newspaper from the next day, and this was going on. So I think very few people knew that gambling was going on.

TI: It's kind of interesting because most of the stories I've done don't talk about the bachelors quarters, so this is kind of a different area. So besides gambling, what else went on? Any other vices like alcohol? Did they do a still or anything like that?

PT: Yes. Alcohol was in the one in north California.

TI: Tule Lake?

PT: Tule Lake. That's in a couple of books I've read, they did it.

TI: But at Manzanar you didn't see any alcohol?

PT: I didn't see any. I can't see anyone bringing it in.

TI: But then in some of the camps they actually made their own.

PT: I'm sure they did, sake kind of thing. Then I worked for the newspaper, and I did primarily layout work. Then pretty soon I started writing little stuff, and I have one down below that I'll show you where I had finally made one of the editors and then also a column there that says, "I am leaving for so-and-so," and I left in June.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.