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TI: So tell me about your mother. What was her name and who, what about her family?

HL: Her name was Tsuru Mukai, was her maiden name. And then let's see, what can I tell about? Well, her, their family is kind of interesting because my mother has a full blooded sister, but she is not part of the Mukai family. You know, Japanese families back then were very complicated because my, that would be my grandmother, got married and then she had two girls, did not produce a son, so at that point they just tell her to go home, and they, when she did she took the youngest daughter with her and left my mother with the Mukais because, the reason for that is because the Mukai had put her into the town register, registry as a Mukai, but her younger sister was never entered into the town registry. So as far as the Mukai family goes she doesn't exist.

TI: And so, I'm not clear, so explain why that happened, so why did they not register her sister?

HL: Well, they, that was just one of the things that they did or they didn't kind of thing, and just like her mother was never entered into the town registry and therefore it was very simple for them to say, "We're dissolving this marriage," 'cause it's not a matter of getting a divorce or anything like that. They go through the marriage ceremony, but legally they were not married, let's put it that way.

TI: Does it have anything to do with, like, lineage or anything? Is that part of it, or is it not even that?

HL: No, it's not that. Lot of times in the old days they did this to make sure they would have a son. And in that she had two girls they decided she wasn't gonna have a boy, and so, and so my mother has, let's see, two half brothers and two half sisters and they're part of the Mukai family, and as far as they're concerned my mother's the oldest and she, but they will never, they don't, they don't consider her other sister as part of the family.

TI: And so what happened to her?

HL: Well, she went back to her family and she grew up with them and she, and so she grew up with my real grandmother. And one of the interesting things was when I went back the first time, and I was, a ferry came in and all these people are at, on the platform, and there was one couple that I knew from Seattle, they were my Japanese school teacher and they were good friends of ours and I recognized them right away. And I said to her, "Who are all these people?" She said, "They're all your relatives." And I recognized my grandfather 'cause he looked like my father, and the other one I recognized was this Obika no obasan, which was my mother's sister. She looked spitting image of my mother. And then I recognized a Nanba no ojisan, which is, was my other uncle.

TI: So in terms of blood relatives, that's, your blood relatives, the Mukai was an adopted, your mother was adopted into this --

HL: No. My mother is a full Mukai. Her father was a Mukai and so are her half sisters and brothers. Her sister is a Mukai except she was never put into the town registry, so she took on the mother's name.

TI: Oh, that's, and then your grandmother...

HL: Went back to her --

TI: Went back to her --

HL: And took her youngest daughter with her.

TI: But your mother stayed with the Mukai family.

HL: Uh-huh.

TI: Okay. That's, okay good. [Laughs] No, I'm, I'm glad we documented, no, tell me more.

HL: I can confuse you more on my mother's side of the family. [Laughs] Because my grandfather had two brothers, and the one next to him was adopted into the Nanba family, and the one, the youngest one was adopted into the Takeda family. The Nanba's, the Takedas had kids and so we won't go into that one, but the Nanba family didn't have any children and so my uncle married one of the Nanba girls, from one of the Nanba. They didn't have any kids, so then they adopted my brother, my mother's brother. [Laughs]

TI: Half brother. Was it half?

HL: Yeah, half brother, and then he became a Nanba.

TI: So not only was a half brother, but then a cousin, I guess, also. Would that be a cousin?

HL: No, no. Just a half brother. See, but he was adopted by his uncle into the Nanba family. And fortunately they had children. [Laughs]

TI: Okay, but then, so the Takedas had kids, then the Nanbas now, through this adoption, they had kids, and the Mukais kept at least one of her stepbrothers.

HL: Yes. Yeah, my mother's youngest brother, the Mukai, he was, kept the family name and so he had plenty of kids.

TI: And what kind of work did the Mukai family do?

HL: They were farmers, too, basically.

TI: Were they landowners? Were they...

HL: Oh yeah. You know, small land. And of course, the Nanba family is interesting because when he, when my great uncle was first adopted they were a big rice, let's see, what do you call them, warehouse, and they were big rice warehousing and dealer. And then when my uncle was adopted into the family my great uncle said, "You know, times are getting so that the rice business is not much, is not very good, so we should, I think you should go into the automobile business." He says, "I'll buy you a franchise for Chevrolet," 'cause at that time Japan wasn't producing it, so he was a Chevrolet, and then right before the war started, back in about, I think it was 1937, this other, my great uncle said, get out of the Chevrolet and buy, and get a franchise for the Toyota, and so that's the way he got into the Toyota and now the family is the dealership for the whole four provinces of Shikoku.

TI: So your grandfather was pretty savvy when it came to business, it sounds like.

HL: My, no my uncle, my great uncle.

TI: Uncle, great uncle, okay yeah, on Nanba.

HL: Yeah, he was a very, the Nanba family. But see, it gets real complicated on my mother's side, 'cause you could have full lineage, but then the name is different and it's a different family.

TI: Okay. No, I think I have it now.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.