<Begin Segment 19>

TI: So, so after Japan what did you do? How did you get to Oakland?

HL: Well, I was in Japan, I decided I would apply for a special ed class, and I applied in, I decided I wanted to be where the weather was good, so it was a matter of the Bay Area or San Diego area, and then in that, Merv was supervisor of special ed here and I knew what his philosophy was, so I decided I'd apply in Oakland. And so that's how I got to Oakland.

TI: And before we talk about Oakland, why not Seattle? You were born and raised there. Why not go back to Seattle? Your family's there.

HL: Lousy weather up there. Why would I want to go up there?

TI: You sound like my camera person back here. I think she's, she says... [Laughs] So the weather.

HL: Yeah, and, and I didn't want to be, go back home. I'd been on my own too long. I wanted to be my own person.

TI: Yeah, so I want to talk about that because you, you are such an independent person, and was that part of your thinking, that you went back to Seattle you would have to be, you'd come under the confines of the community, the family, certain expectations of --

HL: Yeah, and then the Japanese community in Seattle was pretty provincial at that time, and I didn't want to be boxed in like that. I wanted, I wanted to live, and so I was not going back there.

TI: Okay. So you, you come to Oakland, so what do you do in Oakland?

HL: I taught. I taught school. And then, and then I met Ed through one of the teachers. One of the teachers I taught with, her husband and Ed worked together, and so she invited me over for a Christmas party over there and I met him and, next thing we know, got married.

TI: So Ed is Chinese American. Tell me what it was like, having grown up more in the Japanese community when you're younger, and now all of a sudden being introduced to the Chinese community.

HL: They're not that different.

TI: So tell me, so how are they similar when you say they're not that different?

HL: Well basically, the, some of the customs are different, but then when you get right down to it, you know, it's, I can't say that they're that different. I mean, I never found it that... of course, they had, they're more superstitious. Oh, they've got more superstitions than, you don't sweep on New Year's Day because you're gonna sweep all your good luck out and that kind of thing. [Laughs] And especially my, Ed's sister, Elma, nicest person, but superstitious. She was a gambler, and you know gamblers usually are superstitious anyway. But they're all good cooks. They're wonderful cooks.

TI: But going back to superstitions, that's funny because I think of, of these Japanese superstitions in terms of, after a funeral with salt over your shoulder and things like that.

HL: Well, the Chinese, when you go to a Chinese funeral you come out, they give you a white paper and a red paper. The white paper has a, usually used to have a nickel in it and a piece of candy. You eat the candy and you threw the white paper away. The red paper had a dime in it. Now, you could keep the, the red paper or you could throw it away. Most people do. But the nickel you were supposed to spend before you went home.

TI: Oh, so you had to go someplace and spend the nickel. [Laughs]

HL: Yep. And so I remember we would all put our nickels together 'cause what could you buy for a nickel, you know? [Laughs]

TI: And someone'd just buy a candy bar or something, or something.

HL: And then, of course, the Chinese will not go directly from the funeral home, from the funeral to their own home. Usually they'll go to, they'll usually have a luncheon or dinner or something right after the funeral, and you go there, you eat, and then you go home.

TI: So again, it was like bad luck to go directly from the funeral to home.

HL: Yeah, and then another thing they do is they, they take this funeral parade all over. You start at the funeral home, you go down to, usually if they had a business they'd go by their business, you go by their home, and then to the cemetery, so sometimes it takes you an hour to get from the... and then God forbid if you get, go to a funeral in San Francisco, and they're usually buried out in Colma. You start out in Chinatown, and then they usually live way out on the Avenue, so you go out on the Avenue and then you go all the way out, by the time you get out there you're just exhausted from driving all this distance in San Francisco traffic.

TI: And it's all, like in a procession, too, back and forth and so, the whole thing? I'm curious, do the Chinese have something similar to koden, the, like how the Japanese always bring this, those little envelopes with money to help the family? Do they do similar things in the Chinese community?

HL: No, what you, you usually take either card or you, the Chinese are great at flowers. You send flowers, but it's getting now so that they don't do that as much 'cause most people are saying, well, you're just wasting your money on the flowers that that could be better spent, so it's come a long way from that.

TI: I was just curious because the koden is, always struck me as, because families are so poor and they just need help with the, the funeral expenses.

HL: It's, you helped each other.

TI: Helped each other with that.

HL: That's what the koden was all about.

TI: And so I was curious, because the Chinese were immigrants also, if they had similar mechanisms to help each other out when, so like when someone struggles in the Chinese community, how do they --

HL: Well, see, they had their tongs, their family associations, and the family associations took care of people.

TI: And how were you accepted as Japanese into the Chinese community? Were there, like any tensions from World War II or anything like that?

HL: They, no, no. People just thought, "This poor person doesn't speak Chinese." [Laughs]

TI: Okay. Good.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.