<Begin Segment 16>

TI: And so from Oakland then by train I think you make your way across the country?

AO: Yes.

TI: Is it to Mississippi?

AO: To Mississippi, yeah.

TI: And tell me about going to the South and how that was for you?

AO: Well, the thing is along the way, somewhere along the way, I don't know where but the train stopped for giving the boys a break and all the while the train is going we were required to put the blinds down on the train. We couldn't see outside but when we reached a point, I don't know, to rest or recuperate or what, we opened up and some of the boys went out just to take a walk. And some of the white people around there, they were surprised to see us and they wanted to know who we were and when we told them... some of the boys told them we were from Hawaii. They wanted to know if we had come all the way from Hawaii on that train, you know. But you see that's the kind of people or mentality or educational background some of these people were. But that was only one thing and then we went all the way to Hattiesburg, Mississippi, yes.

TI: And what were your kind of first experiences with segregation?

AO: Well, you hear a lot but the actual experience was that I had was I was on a bus one day going out to town for when we had a leave and there were a bunch of us and for some reason or other in Hawaii most of the boys when we used to go into the bus we always like to take the back seats as kids. So same thing when we travelled by bus on weekend passes from the camp to Hattiesburg, getting to the bus and first thing you know we head for the back seat and then we got reprimanded by the bus driver saying, "Don't go in the back seat, that's not for you." And we said, "Why not?" They said, "No, no, that's set aside for the blacks. It's not for you." No, so what you know. So I mean, that's the kind of... it was nothing to us and yet it was such a big deal over there. And another incident was at the bus station and the train station we found that there were signs saying "white" and "black." And the Hawaii boys never felt that, well, such segregation should be in effect so when we felt like going to the toilet, we just went into whichever one was convenient and some of them went into the "blacks" and the boys got reprimanded for it. And then of course because of these things that resulted in many, many hand fights among the whites and some of our boys. And so I think it must have reached a level that came to the attention of the higher ups and they said this wasn't very good because we were creating too much trouble by anti-discrimination actions being taken. In other words we should observe whatever rulings or laws that were in effect at that time, in other words, the blacks were blacks and the whites were whites. And so the commanding, I don't know if he was a general or colonel of the 442 got the whole group together one day and says, basically what he told them, "Look, you're in the south, there are certain practices and rules and regulations that must be observed here. There are certain areas that you're not supposed to go in and you are being considered whites and therefore you're not to visit or go into the 'black' toilet, so bus areas. And you're considered white so if you want to stay like that you got to observe," otherwise they said, you know, "we'll just have to do something drastic to make you people observe whatever rules and regulations and laws that are in effect over here." So he laid the law down to the boys.

TI: So he was essentially giving you guys an order to stay away from the "black" areas?

AO: Exactly, to observe the rules and regulations of the South, you know.

TI: You know, another question is when did you start hearing about the camps? That, you know, Japanese Americans were put into place like Jerome or Rohwer?

AO: Well, I think there was quite a bit of publicity among the... those officers or people involved in trying to... you see, the feelings among or between the so-called mainland Japanese and Hawaiian Japanese boys, the relationship wasn't very good because it's just that for one thing I think you mainland boys spoke too well, you know, you used perfect English and where us Hawaiian boys we used pidgin English, broken English and said things in very poor English. And of course we thought, our local boys thought we were being looked down upon and you know. So there was a sense of bad relationship and then because they were there before, the mainland Japanese boys were there, they were our sergeants and we came in and they were our sergeants, they were superior to us and they were giving us orders, that added to the fire so to speak. And so they were our superior, we had to do what... and basically I think it's like I say, it must be because they spoke so well, which was natural for them but our boys didn't realize all that so there wasn't good feeling and there were a lot of... not lot but fights every now... here and there, you know, some of the boys didn't feel they were being... well, they were being looked down upon and being unfairly treated. But because of all these happenings I think some of the officers felt that something ought to be done and therefore I think some people, the higher ups felt that maybe if the local boys were introduced to people in the camps and saw under what conditions these people are living or being treated, and in spite of that, that many of the boys volunteered to serve in the service, they might get better relations between the Japanese, the Hawaii Japanese and the mainland Japanese boys. And so the tours had been arranged and so on certain, it was really weekend trips I think, a bunch of boys were given passes and trucked from Hattiesburg, Camp Shelby to... I went on a trip to... let's see --

TI: It's either Jerome or Rohwer?

AO: We went to Rohwer, there were many that went to Jerome but we went to Rohwer, yes. And I went on one trip and they kept on rotating and letting different... so I think it was very helpful in that for the first time the other Hawaii boys realized that after all, you know, these guys are getting it rough and they gave up a lot of their so-called special foods and whatnot to treat the Hawaii boys to good meals and so forth and dances and different kind of social activities. So I think it changed the minds of many, many of the Hawaii boys, yes.

TI: So that helped the relationship between Hawaii and the mainlanders?

AO: Yes, definitely.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.