Densho Digital Archive - Yutaka Inokuchi Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

TI: Today is Thursday, March 3rd, 2011 --

YI: Girl's Day today. [Laughs]

TI: Oh yeah, Girl's Day, 3/3, yeah, I forgot, that's right because I was at Shirokiya, they have all the Girl's Day food and everything. I forgot about that. So we're in Honolulu at the Ala Moana Hotel, Dana Hoshide is on the camera, I'm the interviewer, Tom Ikeda and here today we're with Yutaka Inokuchi. So, Yutaka, I'm just going to start at the very beginning. Can you tell me when you were born?

YI: Yeah, born August 25, 1924.

TI: So that makes you, what, eight-six years old?

YI: Eighty-six, yes.

TI: You are in amazing shape. People must say that you look a lot younger than eighty-six.

YI: I hope so. [Laughs]

TI: And where were you born?

YI: I was born in Waipahu on this island here and there's a sugar plantation there in Waipahu. I mean it's primarily, it's a sugar plantation town. The company is called Oahu Sugar Company and I was born and raised there.

TI: So when you say you were born there, were you born... did they have like a medical facility or --

YI: Oh yeah, the plantation, all the plantations have their own medical facility for their employees. They also had what they called a plantation store where, you know, most of our parents, they would go and charge it and make payments when they get paid at the end of the month. I mean, the charges were greater than the... what you call, paycheck so kept running a big balance.

TI: So it's a way of the company controlling the people there?

YI: That's right. When you look back at it, that's the way they controlled the employees, that you're obligated financially. So this meant that, what you call, families with a lot of kids, meant the kids went to work already full time fourteen, fifteen to help pay back the big balances they had at the store.

TI: And so was the goal for families to make enough money so they could pay all their debts and then would they leave or would they stay?

YI: Well, you know, by the time I was born, to stay really. I mean, I think the roots were deep enough that I don't think, well, there were some families that went back but most of them decided to stay. Because already, you know, our primary schooling was English.

TI: But if, you know, after their debts are paid, they can either go to Japan or they can go maybe other places on the island or something like that? So the people go to maybe other places on their own and independent?

YI: Oh yeah, very few though, most of them stayed in the plantation. Funny, you get comfortable in that kind of lifestyle. So eventually they got old enough, got married and the longer you worked for the plantation, you know, you feed into different occupations.

TI: Okay, so we can come back to that. I like now talk a little bit about your father because I want to learn how you got to the plantation. So tell me your father's name and where he's from?

YI: Okay, my father is Kakuji, K-A-K-U-J-I, Inokuchi. He's from Hiroshima-ken, okay, I guess it's called a district of Takata-gun in Hiroshima-ken. He arrived Hawaii in 1906 at about age nineteen. He was a draft dodger. Before he got conscripted to the Japanese army, he came to Hawaii. He was not a contract laborer. He was a merchant's son in this village in Japan so he was not able to do manual labor work, I mean, he tried it but he couldn't keep up with... most of the immigrants were farmers. You know, farmers, he couldn't keep up with them so, I think, fortunately he had formal schooling in Japanese so he was hired by the newspaper, you know, running errands but primarily to typeset. You know, the Japanese typesetting, you got to be able to read it because it's not... you see the back of the type.

TI: Right, so you had to look like everything's backwards and you'd have to --

YI: You'd have to know your kanji in order to pick the right character. So he was able to do that. And then my mother came to Hawaii about ten years later. I think she came to Hawaii about 1916 or '17 because my older sister was born in 1918.

TI: So why did your mother come to Hawaii?

YI: Okay, there was another couple that came from the same area in Japan, like my father, and they decided... this arrangement where the husband and wife would come to Hawaii on a contract. Because most of them were later what they called "picture brides," but anyway, this couple decided to go back to Japan. I guess they made their money, you know, one contract, three years. And because they came from the same area, I guess they met, you know, and they became friends, and so when this couple was ready to go back to Japan, they said, well, you need a wife.

TI: So they're talking to your father?

YI: Yeah, yeah, "You need a wife," so they said, he has a niece who's about age to get married, I guess my father consented. So this couple went back and then, you know, they do this, what you call a miai kekkon, I mean, you know, the arranged marriage. They went through the formal process without my father, not being there and my aunt who's my father's older sister took my mother-to-be in and she taught her, you know, the what you call, the wifely things that she got to do. And interesting part is that they had the marriage in proxy, in others words, they went through the formal wedding ceremony in Japan, I guess you call that a proxy, my father was not there. So my mother is not a "picture bride," she's one of those arranged marriage.

TI: But married in proxy in Japan?

YI: Yes.

TI: So that's a little bit different, yeah.

YI: Yeah, yeah, I think we have pictures of that, you know, I don't who stood for my father but...

TI: And did you hear any stories from your mother when she first came to Hawaii and met your father, what that was like?

YI: You know it's funny, I mean, never occurred to us to ask those kind of question.

TI: 'Cause I always like those stories like where they were surprised or sometimes maybe disappointed or happy, so I was just curious.

YI: Well, I suspect that my mom knew little bit about my father because my aunt took her in, you know, I think she... you know, to make all the arrangements to come to Hawaii must have taken about a year. So while she was waiting for the arrangements to be completed, she lived with my aunt and so I guess there must have been pictures around the house. [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 2>

TI: So when they were married, you know, by proxy, was your father still working with the newspaper at this time?

YI: Yes, I think he was but, I mean, there wasn't enough to support a family I think, you know. So they decided to go and work in the pineapple field because the work in the pineapple field was little lighter than working in the cane, sugar cane field. So they both worked I understand until my mother became pregnant with the first child. And I guess they must have worked a while there, maybe five, six years in the pineapple field. Then they felt that my older sister needed to go to school and then they decided to move, you know, closer to all the other amenities. Then he came to work for Oahu Sugar Company.

TI: Oh, so that's when they started working at the sugar company.

YI: So he must have started in the 1920s.

TI: Okay. So let me ask you about your brothers and sisters. So your oldest sister, what was her name?

YI: My oldest sister, Toshie, and I think she was born in about (1918), I think. And the sister above me is Tomoe and I'm the middle child, I have a brother Takeo and a younger sister, Sumie, there are five of us.

TI: And they are all... okay, so your oldest sister wasn't born at the plantation. Was the second one born at the plantation?

YI: No.

TI: So you were the first one born at the plantation and then your brother and sister also?

YI: Yes, also.

TI: So let's talk a little bit about just the plantation. I'm curious about how large was the, you know, the plantation?

YI: Oahu Sugar was I think was considered the largest sugar plantation in this island. Well, let's go back... when I think my father came to work for Oahu Sugar (Company) I think he came to work as a painter, you know, they need to maintain the plantation, I think he said he was a painter when he came to Oahu Sugar and later he became a custodian at the plantation office. And then he was asked to do all kinds of things because he can read and write, he used to read the other employees' letters, they were illiterate, you know. Most of the immigrants that came because of kind of conditions they had to leave to Japan, you know, they had very little schooling. So my father would read the letters for them and write the reply for them and that was part of his job, aside of doing the custodial work.

TI: Okay, and so his position was higher than just the laborers or about the same?

YI: I guess he was classified custodian but, I mean, you know, they let you do all kind of thing. Actually, he's always very regular, he went to work about four-thirty in the morning, open up the office, you know, because what they call a plantation, the lunas or the superintendents come to work early and get ready for work. And then he would open up the place and he would come home. And then he'll go, before lunch he'll go and he'll go to the post office, he runs the errands for the office, go to the bank, go to the post office, bring back the mail, sort the mail, and then the employees would come if they had letters from Japan or something like that.

TI: I see and if they needed help reading it then he would read it?

YI: If they needed help, he would read for them and then write the letters for them. And then he'll go back about four o'clock, you know, about closing time and that's when he really did custodial work, you know, clean up the place and then he'll be the one to close up and come home. So he always, what you call, he worked in shifts during the day.

TI: But it was like a combination job too. The custodian work was almost like a clerk type of work almost it seems like, you know, the post office and the letters.

YI: Yeah, I guess, you know, the office wasn't that big and I guess they didn't need a full time custodian. And I think earlier they didn't have any female working in the office. It made the work a little easier, you know, with only one restroom to clean or something like that.

TI: I see.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: Yeah, I want to go back to your mother. Can you tell me what your mother's name was?

YI: Koisa, K-O-I-S-A.

TI: And can you tell me a little bit about her family and what kind of work they did?

YI: Okay, my mother had a terrible childhood. She was born out of wedlock, okay, from what I hear she was a child of two prominent family in the village, two merchants. And I guess they went through all the... I mean, they knew each other actually, you know, but she became pregnant. So for, I think, well, actually he would be my grandfather actually, family decided that for stature, they didn't want the marriage to go through because my grandmother was pregnant. So when my mother was born, she was put up for adoption. So my mother had very little schooling, in fact, one or two years I think, you know. And to this day, I'm not able to trace the family that adopted her. It's not registered in the Japanese koseki, it's hard to trace. I'm still trying, you know, but that's the kind of life my mother had.

TI: So they didn't send her to school so was she more like a servant kind of or she did more work?

YI: I guess she must have been adopted by a poor farming family where you know...

TI: Okay, so she just --

YI: That's one thing she never talked about. Yeah, she never talked about her growing up.

TI: Interesting, okay. And so how was that for your father, so your father was more learned, I mean, he could, you know, read, write and your mother wasn't. Was that difficult for them?

YI: No, because I used to see my mother late at night writing to my sister. My sister was sent... Toshie was sent to Japan to go to school in Japan after she finished eighth grade here. So I saw her writing and she was writing all in katakana, you know. And, you know, we had those Japanese tablet that had blocks, you know, you write your kana in the block and I think it took her hours to write a couple of pages to my sister but I saw her doing that.

TI: Okay, so it's almost like a schoolgirl writing then?

YI: Yeah, and then later on she learned how to write hiragana, okay, and that's a little harder than the katakana but that's all she learned. My mom was a good seamstress, she could sew, she learned how to sew kimono, you know, she used to sew all my shirts and trousers. And so she did the sewing for the community almost.

TI: Oh, so more than just the family, she did others.

YI: She never went back to the fields. She did all the work at home while sewing.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: Okay, so let's talk about your childhood growing up in the plantation. What are some memories that you have?

YI: Well, let's go back a little bit. My family, after I was born, they decided to go back to Japan. One was that my sisters were old enough and they wanted to start them in the Japanese school system. So I celebrated my first birthday in Japan, in the Takata-gun. I think we were there about eight months but conditions in Japan was still, you know, depressed so they decided to come back to Hawaii once more and then make some money and then go back but they never had the stake. Well, I always tell people that we didn't feel deprived being raised in a plantation. I don't know about the other plantations but I think it's the same, you know, they say that when you're poor you don't what is poor, what poor means. That's the way it was. I mean, we had enough to eat, I mean, you know.

TI: Well, and everyone around you was the same.

YI: We all had our own garden to raise vegetable, most of us raised chicken and so as far as, you know, we were not deprived food-wise. And the plantation provided a lot for the employees. Well, when I was born we didn't have electricity, we were using kerosene lamps so naturally the stove was also a kerosene stove. If you wanted your own bathhouse, a furoba, plantation would, providing that, you know, had enough space in the yard, they'll come and build you one furoba, you know. And during the off season, you know, when they're not... they have what they call an off season where they have to do the, repair the mill. So that's when they don't do any harvesting. That's when the employees used to go and do maintenance, the homes, or go to cut firewood to distribute to the employees, deliver kerosene and you know, somehow we all ended up with fifty gallon drums that they would come and fill.

TI: How large was the plantation? How many, like, people lived there?

YI: It's hard to say. It's a couple thousand I think.

TI: A couple thousand. And were most of the people in families or were there lots of bachelor men or how would that --

YI: Okay, I think most of the plantation used the same arrangement. They segregated the employees by race so actually the Japanese camp was the biggest. Next was the Filipino. I guess in the Filipino case, well, maybe about one-third of that were families and the other two-thirds were all bachelors. By the time I was growing up, very few Chinese, you know, Chinese were the first one to a finish the contract and they moved into town and they started their own business. That's why the Chinese are so well-to-do today, they're the business people. And very few Koreans, the rest were Portuguese or Spanish people that came from Europe. The Europeans, because, you know, they're bigger, they handled the mules and they handled the train, they drove the trucks.

TI: So you mentioned the Japanese camp was the largest.

YI: Largest, yeah.

TI: And, you know, the Filipino was maybe one-third family, two-thirds bachelors. So the Japanese, were there very many bachelors in the Japanese?

YI: Very few.

TI: Okay, so it was mostly families.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: At the plantation were there some, like, communal type of buildings like you mentioned the people would have their own baths. Did they have like a communal bath or something?

YI: There's a communal bath, yeah, communal bath. And, you know, somebody that took care of the furo. And then each, they build the homes in blocks, you know, like a compound. And in the middle of the area, you know, they had the laundry room and the outhouse. So that, you know, all the laundry would be on one line, laundry, the outhouse and the... so I guess it's kind of communal living, yeah, when the laundry and the... eventually people started to build their own laundry, I mean... they were very generous, I think, if you can do things yourself then they'll give you the lumber to do it. And I think that's one way of keeping the employees in the plantation.

TI: And then they had other facilities, like you said, medical facility and the store and the post office.

YI: And then I think the other thing was that they built the Japanese schools in the community. So this is why I said Waipahu was big because we had two language schools, Japanese school. One we called the Sodo Shu Mission, the other one Hongwanji and they even built temples so the language school and the temple was together. So we had two Japanese language schools.

TI: And so did you also have a Buddhist minister?

YI: Yes.

TI: Were there Christian churches, did they have a Christian church?

YI: Yes, there were some few Christians. See, if you look at the makeup of a plantation community, the employees of the sugar plantation, and then because it's a pretty large community, we needed the supporting services. Which is merchants that you know, the plantation still did not have everything that the employees want and no cars, both parents worked. So what happens is that the merchants would come and take order, okay, in the evening and then deliver the next day. So there was a whole lot of... amazing, you know, I finally realized... Japanese, my parents, everybody spoke broken English, what they call pidgin English. It's all mixed up, you know, Japanese, Hawaiian, whatever it is, and the merchants that lived below the mill they used to call them "danburo" -- "down below." I guess when it finally dawned on me that, hey, that's English. [Laughs] And there was a whole... I think we had more than a dozen merchants, yeah.

TI: And what kind of things would the merchants sell? What would they take orders for?

YI: Mostly Japanese things, you know, like dried bonito, umeboshi.

TI: Okay, earlier you talked about the different groups, you know, Japanese, Filipino, Portuguese, was there quite a bit of mixing between, like, when you played as a boy, did you play around with Filipino, Portuguese?

YI: Yes, we all went to the same school. So in our generation we played.

TI: So tell me about the English school, was that in the plantation?

YI: No.

TI: So you had to --

YI: The English schools were out of the plantation. So they had, well, we had two schools, two English schools. One was called August Ahrens School and most of us went to August Ahrens until about fourth grade and then the one that was closer for me was Waipahu School, which was from fifth to eighth. And finally in those days, graduation for us was eighth grade. Eighth grade would be integrated, today's standard integrated. So most of my classmates, their last schooling was eighth grade and then they went to work. So they are about, what, fifteen or that, yeah? (Narr. note: I meant to say no classification as elementary (lower) or intermediate (middle), no kindergarten, just 1st to 8th.)

TI: And so after that, they didn't go to high school.

YI: Those where the parents could afford that, went to, came in town for intermediate. I guess in the '20s and the early '30s there was only McKinley High School and then Farrington High School and by then they built the first high school, again in Waipahu, which meant that students from Aiea, Pearl City, Ewa, all the way from Waianae came to Waipahu High School. So Waipahu High School was a real big high school.

TI: So was that there when you were there?

YI: Yeah, I was there two years, (1939-1940), and then I went Mid-Pacific (Institute), a boarding school.

TI: And so when you started it was a pretty new school, Waipahu?

YI: Yeah, pretty new school, in fact, if I had finished I would have been the second or third graduating class.

TI: Interesting, so it was a brand new school, so it was pretty nice, a brand new school.

YI: Oh yeah, real nice.

TI: Big school.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: You know, going back to the plantation life, so when you had free time, what kind of things would you do during your free time?

YI: Well, we were pretty busy, you know, because after so-called "English school" we all went to Japanese school. From three to four, for about two hours we spend in Japanese school (Waipahu Gakuen).

TI: That's a long time. Most people say one hour after their English school.

YI: One was that we had to share classroom, you know, I mean, they built the Japanese school but they didn't build it for twenty-five to one, not that kind of ratio. And one was that depending on after English school we'd go home and have a bite before we go to school. So depending on how the kids assembled for school but it was about, I'd say maybe not two hours but an hour and a half. And that included school on Saturday too, half a day.

TI: So they... so you didn't have much free time, 'cause you had English school then a little break, then Japanese school.

YI: And they had Sunday school, right, Sunday. And then I guess we're all Buddhist, the Japanese, they're all Buddhist so we went to Sunday school and that took almost half a day. Sunday school was interesting, you know, I guess they talk about Buddhism and then we had service and then... but the teachers would tell us stories, Japanese stories, and they were good so we all assembled and then we just... whichever story you wanted to hear, you know, you would crowd into a room and that took about, you know, thirty minutes.

TI: And when they told the stories, would they tell the stories in Japanese?

YI: Yes.

TI: So your Japanese was good enough that you --

YI: The Japanese school teachers, what they call, Kibeis, people that studied in Japan and came home and most of them lost their English. And they are now teaching Japanese school. But surprising thing is the plantation provided housing, you know, for them. They provided housing for the Japanese school teachers and the Buddhist ministers. And the Buddhists, the housing was on campus.

TI: 'Cause it sounds like the plantations were really self-contained, you know, pretty much everything a family needed was pretty much there.

YI: That's right.

TI: And that was probably done again intentionally to keep families there working. So it was probably, you know, a business reason for them to do that.

YI: Yeah, and then wages were lower, I don't know what we're getting paid, little over a dollar, dollar a day.

TI: Now when you think about, you know, the time, you spent a lot of time in Japanese school and English school, which one did you like better, English school or Japanese school?

YI: Funny, I liked Japanese school better because I was able to get help at home, you know, the lessons in Japanese because, you know, our parents didn't speak English.

TI: So when you were taking Japanese, and you like Japanese school, did you think that eventually you would go live in Japan?

YI: Well, I think going back again, you know, when we went back to Japan I was a year old. My aunt said to leave me in Japan and she would raise me, why, naturally that was not agreeable so they brought me home. But as I was growing up, because my sister was already in Japan, they were telling me that, you know, I should go. But I resisted and good thing I did because a classmate of mine who went back in '39 or '40, he was drafted into the Japanese army, he died in the war so I may have been one of those.

TI: So like when you were a teenager there was that opportunity if you wanted to, to go to Japan?

YI: Yeah, they were kind of pushing me to go. Actually, their stressing more my Japanese studies.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: Interesting, okay, so we talked about school, still you had some free time in the plantations, what would you do?

YI: Oh yeah, I was a Boy Scout and I really enjoyed it, really enjoyed my scout. I never moved up in rank but I was in scouting until I went to Mid-Pacific. So, what, you can become a Boy Scout at about what, ten or eleven I think, so I was, you know, four, five years. We had a good bunch of kids and this was the same bunch that, you know, we played football, baseball.

TI: Now, did you guys ever get in trouble? Did you guys do things that were mischievous at the plantation?

YI: Yeah, plenty but, you know, not where you be charged for crime, you know. Some of the, what you call, the traditional holidays and events, I remember like in Halloween, right, in a plantation, you know, I mean, nobody going to give you candy, they'll give you banana or something from the backyard. But we used to go and roll the garbage can. [Laughs] The thing is that we don't do it in our neighborhood, we did things like that. And we're always looking for something to eat for one thing. I tell people that the taro... okay, taro is grown in the water, and below where I lived there was a pumping station that pumped the water from the... there was a huge spring, there was spring water plus the running stream, they would pump the water up into the irrigation field. And then they need somebody to, what you call, maintain the pump, you know, to set it off or whatever it is. And we used to go and steal the taro and then we learned how not to steal the whole plant, but you know, we would dig in and take the bottom half of the taro and not disturb the plant. And we used to boil it in a gallon can and then... I mean, we know everybody in the camp, I mean, so we would go to the sugar mill and ask for raw sugar, the brown sugar. And then the sugar was in a, they were putting in a burlap bag, and they would sew the top and the cone from the sewing thread, they would fill that cone with raw sugar for us. And then we would dip the cooked taro into the thing and eat. Well, today it's stealing but we were going to steal chicken eggs, right? Because everybody raises chickens and we don't take... we don't clean up the thing, we'd take one from each nest. And there are some bad mistakes because we didn't know that some were being incubated so after we boiled that thing, the embryo was in it. [Laughs] So we had that kind of experience.

TI: So it sounded like the boys, you would just get together and do a little camp out with food, to make you own food and have that. When you were a Boy Scout did you go camping outside?

YI: Yes.

TI: And where were some places you would go camping?

YI: We used to like going camping Waimea Falls. But before we had to kind of hike in, you know, they didn't have roads there. But again you see, the plantation provided transportation for us, you know, when we go camping, we go hiking, and we would camp, you know, Waimea Falls, Hanauma Bay, those days they allowed us to. Hanauma Bay was nice, real nice.

TI: Now how about festivals or community events like, whether it's New Year's Day or Bon Odori, did they have things like that?

YI: Yeah, they had, you know, because we had two temples, right. So we had Bon Odori and we used to dance, we used to dance. Let's see now, and then the Obon is usually, all the time it's in the summer. We had Obon at (Waipahu Hongwanji Mission) and (Waipahu) Soto Mission.

TI: Is it similar to today where this lanterns and singing?

YI: It was even more elaborate before.

TI: It was more elaborate?

YI: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody wear, well, yukata or, you know, that hapi coat. And, well, I haven't been to one in a long time except this one in Aiea where I live but the space is very limited. Because in the limited space that they have, they built new buildings, so when they put the yagura, oh, man, they must have less than 200 square feet to dance around the yagura, you know.

TI: So this in when you were a kid or is this now?

YI: (Growing up, now with limited space).

TI: Yeah, you had more room before.

YI: People would come from... there used to be fights... you know, the older kids for some reason, you know, those are the older kids just about the stage where they started to drink beer and stuff like that. So the kids that come from maybe, say Aiea, they'd come to Waipahu, they get a good licking but same thing when Waipahu kids go to Aiea, they get good licking. Not to the extent that, you know, that they needed to be hospitalized. And also as kids we could follow them so we could see them fighting. When we grew up, I guess, everybody was more civilized and things like that didn't happen. Yeah, we used to follow the older (boys).

TI: Interesting. And how about like kenjinkai picnics, did you have things like that, you know, for Hiroshima?

YI: Yeah, plantation... well, I'm talking about, you know, Oahu Sugar Company, they had a... they develop a beach park for the employees which is a right across from where (Hawaiian Electric Co., Kahe Plant) is, you know this island?

TI: No.

YI: Okay, it's on the leeward side, Kahe Electric Plant is between, well, the beach is between Kahe Electric Plant and the Kolina (Resort). They had fenced that area there, they even built toilets and then we're able to use it. I think on like Fourth of July or something like that they provided transportation. But again, you see, I guess by today we might call it segregation but they had for the general employees and they had another one for the supervisors. Same thing in the camp, they social hall for the, so-called whites and they had their own tennis court. And there were a lot of bachelors in the supervisory, and they all seemed to have come from the southern part of (mainland) because that's where, you know, they had the farming knowledge. So they had social hall quarters for the bachelor supervisors but then they also had a social hall for the employees too, for the Japanese and maybe we used to go and see a movie once a month, open air theater, you know, we'd go and take our goza and reserve our spot and it provided a social hall for Japanese.

<Begin Segment 8>

TI: So we talked about the social, earlier you mentioned especially in the Filipino camp, there are lots of bachelors, so was there things like lots of gambling and things with the bachelors?

YI: Well, they raised fighting cocks, so they used to have... that's where the cock fights were, you know.

TI: So would you go up there and watch that too?

YI: No, you know, we were told not to go. I mean, the Filipinos had a kind of a bad reputation, they're known to be kind of temperamental and... I mean, the kind of activities they had. And so they're all housed in one area, the bachelors, but I used to go. My mom used to do laundry for the... she used to take in laundry to supplement the income and because they worked six days a week so I'll go and pick up the laundry at Saturday afternoon, bring the laundry home. And you have to boil the laundry, you know, with that, they call it a lard soap, but that's the only way you get all the... you know, they wear the same clothes one week, okay, so the thing, I mean, would stand like this. And then we would kind of boil it overnight, then the next day we'd pound it to get all the clothes clean. And then starch it, you got to dry it and then you got to do all that on a Sunday, you know, and the reason you starch it so that you know, the grime would come off easily. Those were the days where you used hinoshi, you never heard of hinoshi? Hi de nosu. Today the kids don't know it, even in Japan when you talk about hinoshi they don't know about it. It's an iron that you put in coal, hot coal.

TI: Oh, I see.

YI: The hinoshi, and then... but you know, it rains on Sunday, it takes you about three times to iron the, starch clothes with... still damp. That was my job, to burn firewood to keep the charcoal going.

TI: Oh, so you were busy on Sundays then, just helping your mother?

YI: Yeah, I don't know when I started, but see, there's a difference in age between my older sister above me, four years. So when, let's see, when I went to intermediate, she already started high school so she moved in town, you know, and worked her way through high school. And my oldest sister was in Japan so I was the oldest.

TI: So you had to do that work?

YI: I had to do it, yeah.

TI: And then you had to get the clothes back to the workers by Sunday --

YI: That evening, well, as soon as it was done. So if it rained, then it would be that evening.

TI: You know, the other question, so you were there for a long time. Was there ever any like labor unrest, you know, where the workers didn't like what was going on?

YI: That was before my time because I think there was a strike in... right after the first World War I think, you know, 1920, 1921. There was a big strike, all the, again, most of the Japanese left the sugar plantation, maybe you need to read about that, you find something. All accounts on that at the JCCH, Brian can tell you about it.

TI: But your time there was --

YI: No, there was, this was after the war I think, '46, '47, that's when the employees became unionized. There were no unions, I think it was 1947 or '47, the first. So they struck, you know, to go through the unionization process.

TI: So let me go back to you and your schooling because you mentioned you went to Waipahu for two years, your I think freshman, sophomore year and then you transferred to Mid-Pacific Institute, so why did you transfer?

YI: They wanted, I guess, better schooling for me because I was the oldest son. So Japanese family favored the oldest son. But unfortunately I started MPI in September 1941 as a junior and then Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941, so being in a boarding school they told us all to go home, one that the building needed to be blacked out.

TI: But before we go to December 7th, just tell me, I know you weren't there that long before the war started, but describe what it was like going to MPI. What was it... a boarding school so this was kind of new to you?

YI: Yeah, but I had classmates there already who started earlier. And then some older kids, one year or two older than me that were there but this was primarily the merchant's kids. So I would say that I was one of the earlier ones that went to a private school, a boarding school.

TI: From the plantation? So how did they treat the plantation kids? Did they look at you differently because you're from plantation versus someone else?

YI: No, there was none of that, none of that, except in, you know, we competed, you know, between the danburo kids and plantation kids, you know, like baseball and stuff. We formed our own teams in the camps and they had their own teams, you know.

TI: And then how was that because were like the plantation kids better at sports or about the same?

YI: About the same. And then, you know, that competition carried through to school so we used to play it during recess, right. Always it would be, you know, that kind of a mild segregation, the camp kids and... but nothing serious, I mean, I guess that kind of segregation was acceptable, I think. I mean, we never got in fights or something.

TI: So it kind of more a friendly kind of grouping that you knew the camp kids so you would stick together and do things but it wasn't like, be like gangs where you would fight against each other. Nothing like that, okay, more like friendly.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: Okay, so let's go to December 7, 1941, and why don't you tell me, yeah, from the beginning of that day how, you know, the day unfolded.

YI: December 7th was a Sunday and at school, because it's a Christian school, Mid-Pacific Institute, Sunday is our service day, church day. And I guess this whole thing started about seven in the morning, before seven in the morning, we heard a lot of buzzing, unusual, and somebody said, "Hey, somebody, Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor." Unfortunately, where we... school is located, you know, the Punch Bowl (hill, now a military cemetery) blocks our view into leeward so we cannot see Pearl Harbor. But right outside my room there's a balcony and then we can reach out and climb the roof. So we're all up on the roof and that's when the teachers got all excited and chased us down. So we went to breakfast and then --

TI: But from the roof could you see anything?

YI: It's, we can't see Pearl Harbor. But we can see the planes. And then I think a few other planes were visible, you know, the hinomaru, but there were a lot of, what you call ack-acks, I think it's our forces that were shooting the planes because we saw this fire where the old Honolulu stadium was. There's a store burning, you know, because from the spent aircraft fire I think. And (later) found out that my brother-in-law owned that building.

TI: Now do you know anything in terms of when that anti-aircraft hit the ground, were people... do you know anybody that was killed or anything.

YI: Yeah, I heard that there were a few casualties.

TI: So you go up to the roof, you see a little bit, the teachers make you come down.

YI: They chased us down and then I guess somebody gave orders for us to evacuate. I don't know whether we spent that night, Sunday night -- excuse me -- in the dorm or not. I think it was kind of too late to do anything so it was like, I mean, just on the main streets we didn't have light. And then Monday morning after breakfast, they told us to go home. And then we were on our own to go home.

TI: But on December 7th, you know, during the afternoon and night, what was the mood, what did people talk about?

YI: Well, we really didn't know what was happening because I think we were very isolated, you know, being together. So I guess we just sat around. Usually on Sunday after service, we can leave campus so, you know, most of us would. And the school would give us two tokens to take the bus, one to go and one to come home with. And then we'll come in town, you know, at least go and have a hot lunch or something, you know, we could have lunch for twenty-five cents and we could go see a movie for twenty-five cents. That's what we used to do Sunday after, I guess, we'll eat lunch and then go out because we didn't want to spend the lunch money. But, see, we had a different kind of schedule at school, we went to school on Saturday but we had Monday off instead of Saturday off. That made it real nice because, you know, if you go to Waikiki, you can swim all... pretty much had the beach to ourselves because our day off was Monday.

TI: So most other kids were in school or families were doing work and then you guys could have the whole place to yourself. But on that day, December 7th, were you able to leave the campus?

YI: No, no, we're not... it's a long time ago... I guess we sat around I think, you know. I think most of us went down to the gym to play basketball and stuff like that. That was a long time ago.

<Begin Segment 10>

TI: Okay, then Monday morning --

YI: Yeah, Monday morning they told us to go home. And then they say pack whatever you need at home but, you know, I had very little so I packed everything, I guess I left the bedding but, you know, I packed all my clothes and then went home in a taxi. I could take the... the bus was running so I took the bus down to, in town where the taxi stand. So I went home, I can see Pearl Harbor, we passed, I guess it's called (Kamehameha) Highway, and I can see the ships burning, black smokes, that was only what... the following day, the ships were still burning.

TI: And what did you think when you saw those ships burning?

YI: I was worried about that what happened to my house. Waipahu is almost on the shoreline, well, Pearl Harbor... we're on the west end and then part of Waipahu is on the shoreline on the Pearl Harbor west side. Well, I mean, one day we found a machine gun bullet that hit our bath house but it was a stray so I don't know whether it was ours or the Japanese or not. But was, I think, a .22 rifle. But in the camp, oh yeah, there is an incident Sunday morning, so Sunday morning is the day they did the sports day for the older kids, and this fellow who was about two years older than me, he was going to the ballgame in his baseball uniform, and he got hit by a stray bullet or something that he died on the spot. That's the one death in the camp, I think.

TI: Was he nearby the camp or he was... do you know where he was?

YI: Just unlucky, I think, one of the strays I think, yeah, and he was alone. So if he was going to the ballpark with his friends, there may have been others that would have been hurt but he was going to the ballpark by himself. He was only seventeen, I think.

TI: So it hit home for people because someone in the camp was killed?

YI: Yeah, that was kind of tragic because that family didn't have a father already. And he was the sole breadwinner for the family, already working for the plantation.

TI: And so he had younger brothers and sisters?

YI: Younger brother was my classmate, yeah. But in the camp we practically knew everybody.

TI: So when you got to the camp, what were people talking about or what did you hear when you got to the camp?

YI: One was that, it took a couple of days to black out the house, you know, and that's when I sensed some discrimination, you know, they had to... I guess the so-called civil defense came into the picture, I don't know whether... because I wasn't home so I don't know whether there was some preparation but they needed block wardens, right, to see that none of the lights leaked out. They didn't let any of the Japanese become block wardens, okay. The Filipinos and the Portuguese used to just yell at us. You know, there's some leakage, the light. So I'd think, oh, this is where they were getting even with the Japanese, that we got the brunt of it. But, I mean, you know, most of us, I think that we were not involved with the military. Evidently there was a big military contingent in Hawaii, Pearl Harbor, Schofield, Wheeler Field, Kaneohe. But I don't think, you know, very many of them... I don't remember having any military dependent as a classmate. For one thing, Waipahu was not a military... not close to a military installation except Pearl Harbor. But there was school in that area by the time I was high school age already. They had the Pearl Harbor Elementary and high school, that's where the military kids went.

TI: So in the days after, were there any other restrictions so the blackout, you mentioned there's a beach access. Was that stopped or anything was there anything like that that you could remember, were there more restrictions?

YI: Yeah, well, one was that started gas ration, right? And most of the families didn't have car anyway so you didn't... and there was a mass rush to go and get the defense, what is called the defense job.

TI: You mean the jobs in the defense?

YI: Yeah, you know, because after December 7th, you know, they had to build a additional military installation. Because I think they brought more troops in I think and that's when a lot of plantation people left to go and look for defense jobs.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: Before we go there, there are a couple other questions, because there was... well, one question was, did the FBI come to Waipahu, did they pick up anyone at the camp?

YI: Yeah, later on I found out, but way later though. They picked up, okay, like they already had a list, the Japanese school teachers, the minister, those kind of people. And we had, in the camp, what they called a Japanese social club, and the head of the social club I think was picked up, you know, during... immediately following December 7th. Then there was what you call a newspaper reporter that lived in a few houses away from me, he was picked up, he was a reporter, he represented the Japanese newspaper where he collected the newspaper fee and he wrote for the paper, he was picked up. And there were two papers, you know, the two language papers in Hawaii at that time so both writers were picked up.

TI: So there were people in the camps, several people picked up?

YI: Yeah, ministers, schoolteachers, yeah.

TI: You know, I was reading through some of your notes and you mentioned also a relative of the family of your father that was also picked up.

YI: Yeah. My father's cousin married a Shinto priest and then it was a second marriage for both of them. So naturally on December 7th, these are the people that were picked up, okay, all priests. And a few days later, my father found out that the kids were parentless, there were three kids, five, three, and almost two. And my father found out that they were watched by the custodian of that shrine. We're not related, okay, we're not related to these three kids because these are my father's cousin's step-grandchildren, you know, but I guess because, you know, we knew them, we went to pick them and we brought them home and we cared for them. I think we cared for them about six months. And I think that was one of the reasons why, maybe, that my father was picked up. My father's internment came way later though. He was picked up after, I mean, we're jumping all over but anyway, in May 1944.

TI: Okay, we'll get there, I just want to, we'll kind of walk through that. So your parents and your family took care of these three young children. Do you remember how it was for them, were they frightened?

YI: Well, I think the older one being five and he was a real smart kid so I think he sensed something but he was a big brother, he looked after a sister and the younger brother. In fact, I remember that the youngest one, not quite two, wanted to suck mama's breast because that's what he missed the most. They managed, I guess, I think they were with us about six months, I think.

TI: And then after six months, what happened to them?

YI: Well, finally we were able to find out where their parents were and then at that point they were at two different camps, the internment camp. And then they were giving a lot of families in Hawaii where the family members were interned, a chance to get out go to the internment and join the family. So we were able to make arrangement and then there was one family that was gracious enough to say we're going to the same camp, and we'll care for the kids. So we sent them off with them.

TI: So the kids could join the mother?

YI: Yeah, and later on I think they got together as a family I think. Well, there were no communication after we let the kids go, I mean, I guess they were restricted from writing whatever, never heard anything.

TI: And after the war, did you hear anything in terms of everything was okay?

YI: They came back, yeah, they came back. And they lost the temple, through a long lawsuit and stuff to reclaim the temple.

TI: I'm curious, you know, so your father's cousin married a Shinto priest, but then why did they take her? I mean, I'm curious, a lot of times I read that they take priest but then oftentimes the wife wouldn't be taken.

YI: She was also a priest too, I think, and that's my father's mother's side which comes from a Shinto family I think.

TI: It just seems so harsh to take the parents away from young children.

YI: Yeah, that would have been really, you know, I mean, some of the, what you call, atrocities of the war. I think they were very irresponsible. I mean, they came to pick the parents up, the parents were never given a chance to go home, you know, even to pick up their clothes I think. I don't know. The army was really... I think they were more scared than the civilians because of the fact that Pearl Harbor was bombed. They were sure the Japanese would invade.

TI: Yeah, it just seems --

YI: You read all of that, oh, the U.S. Army is so inadequate.

TI: 'Cause it's almost like they just left the children to fend for themselves and luckily your family took them in.

YI: The custodian was there.

TI: Yeah, the custodian but then your family stepped in to take care of them for like six months.

YI: I think it was about six months, I think.

TI: Okay.

<Begin Segment 12>

TI: So let's go to your situation, so you go back to the camp and then you mention now that all of a sudden there's these jobs, you know, defense jobs available. So what did you do?

YI: Yeah, well, what you call... well, let's go back to the May event, okay. In May 1944, I don't exact date, I think it was about the 20th or something, they had a big ordinance explosion in West Loch. You know, that thing was, as a civilian it was spectacular, oh, what a spectacular fireworks. But a lot of people got hurt, okay, and this happened on a weekend. I think it started Saturday night and went all day Sunday. And Monday morning my father went to work and he's goes to work about four o'clock in the morning.

TI: And where's your father working at this time?

YI: He was working at Oahu Sugar, yeah, he was doing his custodial job. So, you know, about four, four-thirty he went to work and about a little after seven I think, I was a freshman at the U and I used to commute from home. My father came home with two FBI agents, you know, so I asked him what happened, said, "We're going to take your father in for interrogations." So, came home, have him change clothes and then some clothing... and that's the last we saw him.

TI: So this is where I don't understand, so did he have any contact at West Loch, did he do anything --

YI: No, see but, you know, they have this blacklist I think, right? So if something like that happened, they go to the list and pick people up, that's the way they operated, you know, the FBI and the so-called G2s. They have some suspects but not enough, I mean, my father probably was a suspect because we took in this Shinto family of kids, you know. So when that incident happened, the ordinance explosion, they went through the checklist, it was Kakuji Inokuchi came to pick him up.

TI: So even though he had no connection with this explosion, you're just thinking that so they... so as things happen, they keep these lists and then when something bad happens, just to really in some ways just show that they are doing something.

YI: That's right, some accountability I guess, that they are performing their job. Because 1941, my sister was already home, she came home, she finished her schooling, she was home. So we really had no connection with Japan except in that we had relatives. All Japanese in Hawaii had relatives in Japan.

TI: And at this point you were a freshman at the University of Hawaii. And we should back up a little bit because, you know, after you graduated from MPI, you tried to actually enlist into the army, the MIS.

YI: I know that was the freshman year at the UH, you know, they asked for volunteers, you know, to go to language school and most of my classmates at MPI were freshmen at UH. So we went, filed our application and then we went to a physical, I think we went to Schofield Barracks for a physical. But I was not accepted, I had a punctured ear drum so all my friends went but, you know, I became what they call a 4-F.

TI: So you were rejected for physical, because you didn't pass a physical.

YI: In fact, I'm not boasting but I was the most fluent in Japanese among all my classmates that were accepted for language school. [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 13>

TI: So they took your father away, and so you didn't see him for a while so what happened to your father?

YI: My father is a kind of a worrier, see, and I'm pretty sure that he had some problem with his stomach. He had early signs of ulcer because he used to drink. And so in the -- I'm going to change the subject -- but I was able to get his record, his internment record, copy of the internment record, you know, you can write to whatever and they send me a whole stack of 'em. And one of the thing was that he was taken the immigration station which is a... and first night or the second night, he hemorrhaged and that was on account of his ulcer. And for some reason, the investigator has a lot of imagination, there was a wire clothes hanger that was given for him to hang the clothes, there was blood on it so they thought that using the clothes hanger, he was going to commit suicide. But there were, after inspection, there were no outward wounds, he was I guess discharging blood and then he threw up some blood or something. So they rushed him to Tripler, the army hospital, so that's where the record got confused. We keep calling and they didn't know where he was, you know, I guess, the interrogators and the medical didn't get together so it took about two, three weeks I think before they finally told us that he's now at the Farrington High School. They built a emergency medical facility in the parking lot of Farrington High School and he was there. That was the first time we were able to go visit him. That was about almost three weeks after he was picked up.

TI: So he was recuperating after the --

YI: Yeah, he, I guess so, you know, the diet didn't fit him, I think, you know. He didn't say much, he didn't say much, he just asked how we were doing. And then I guess they finally diagnosed that he had bleeding ulcer. They called us, you know, because I was in school, my sister took the call and they wanted to perform surgery, you know. I think my sister went to see the plantation doctor, he was a good doctor, he said, no, ulcer can be fixed without surgery and the army surgeon probably wants to practice so don't let him do it. [Laughs] So I guess it kind of settled, you know, with diet and medication and then he was transferred to the internment camp in Honouliuli. So that must have been about a couple of months after he got.

TI: So sort of summer, summer time 1944, so he got there May and June, July, August.

YI: I guess by June I think he was at the internment camp.

TI: So at this point you're at the University of Hawaii still?

YI: I was finished, I finished my first year and so I decided to go look for job, you know, no skill and I applied, you know, for defense job or some kind of helper. And they said, "No, we cannot hire you because your father is what you call 'enemy alien.' But just about that time they drafted my kid brother, you know, he was eighteen, you know, nineteen, you know, and then the... and he was sent to, what you call, in Wisconsin.

TI: Oh, so at Camp Shelby?

YI: I think so, yeah, or around there someplace, you know.

TI: For the MIS or for --

YI: Yeah, MIS.

TI: Okay, so probably Camp Shelby.

YI: So I went back and said, "You guys decide now, right? My father is in an internment camp, you guys drafted my brother, how do I stand?" And that's when they gave me a job and it just happened that facility is no longer there, it's in Barbers Point today, well, it should be the Barbers Point Naval Station. Barbers Point was not a naval station in 1941, since then it was developed. And then I was given a job as electrician helper or refrigeration help. So we used to service the installations on the leeward side, and one of the installation we serviced was the internment camp, so I used to go in there once a week.

TI: Yeah, so when they assigned that job to you, did they know that your father was there?

YI: Yeah, because that was why they declined my --

TI: Yeah, but then they declined and then they gave you job that would put you in contact with your father. Did they know that?

YI: My dad, they would give him family visitation rights anyway.

TI: Oh, he did have family.

YI: Yeah, visitation rights. But I guess once a month or something like that.

TI: Yeah, but still it seems a little odd that they would give you a job that would get you inside the camp as a worker at your father's camp.

YI: That's why I say, that's the way our Intelligence works, right? [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 14>

TI: So we're back on camera, so we're back on the record. So where we left it, you had finished your first year at U of H, you quit, and then you got this job that actually was... allowed you to go to like Honouliuli and other camps in that area. So the question I have is, tell me about Honouliuli, when you would go do the type of work, what kind of work would you do at Honouliuli?

YI: Okay, for one thing, it's called a (PW camp) in Honouliuli gulch, okay, and there is a village called Honouliuli which is an entrance to Ewa Plantation. So most of us never referred to Honouliuli gulch because there was nothing there, okay, and it's not visible from the road.

TI: That's good to know because if I say Honouliuli, you think of the village, not the gulch.

YI: Yes, if you ask ten people, I think nine would tell you it's the village, entrance to Ewa because there was nothing in the Honouliuli gulch and then, except for families that had internees in there, nobody knew.

TI: So as a worker, what would you call the gulch, what would you call that?

YI: POW camp, that's what it was known as a POW camp and then, of course, I knew my father was there. See, they said that there were Italian POWs but I'm sure there were Germans too because I remember the distinction in the uniform, you know, they all didn't have the same kind of uniform. And they had Taiwanese families, you know, because of the war in the Pacific, for their safety, I think there were families in the camp behind our, my father's location. I saw families in there with kids.

TI: And when you think of the camp layout, so there are like these different sections, you mentioned German, Italian, Taiwanese families, your father. How did they separate the different areas?

YI: Fencing, you know, barbed wire, yeah. I guess they couldn't comingle. I don't know about the POWs, I think they were together, the Italians and Germans but I may be mistaken but I say there were two because I remember the difference in the uniform, you know.

TI: And then so tell me again when you would go to Honouliuli, you know, the POW camp, what would you do? What was your job?

YI: What you call, I wonder if there was a security gate, I don't think there was a security gate into the camp, but the MP would come and meet us and then he would open the gate for us, you know, like entrance to the mess hall. But we were not allowed in the camp, the mess hall, as you go in the left side was the camp and there was big mess hall, I think, you know, that concrete area, I think that was part of the mess hall. He would watch us, he would sit down and watch us while we did our thing. But after a while, you know, we got to know him because I'd go there weekly, and talking, I'd say to him, my father's in there, you know. He said, "Well, why don't you go talk to him," you know, so he'd let me go and talk to my father over the fence and my father would give me... you know, there was a huge rationing during that time, where civilians didn't have butter, this kind of stuff. But he used to give me lots of butter to take home because, you know, what they going to use it for, you know, Japanese, they were giving them rationed butter and they didn't know what to do with it.

TI: So that's interesting, so the prisoner was giving you things to take home?

YI: Yeah, I used to take it, you know, if I knew I was going in then my mother would make extra musubi and I'd take it and give to him, yeah.

TI: And how was he when you saw him because you mentioned earlier he --

YI: He was well already and he was resigned to the fact that... I think he enjoyed it, I mean, you know, that... well, I think that's the kind of quiet my father liked, those who do a lot of reading and writing and stuff like that. And then I used to take in rags for him, they were making wooden geta, and I guess they needed they braided the rags to make the himo for the geta so I used to take in rags for him.

TI: So he would tell you what he needed and the next time you would come and bring things. And you also mentioned that the men could also have, you know, family visitation, did you ever go to any of those?

YI: No, I didn't go because, you know, I let my mother and sister go because, you know, I see him. And they tell me the visitation was in the mess hall I think.

TI: And do you recall how your mother and sister, where they would have to go to be taken to the camp? Did they have to meet like at a certain place to go?

YI: Yeah, well, actually, we had a friend in the camp that took them. But he had to stay in the car though, we didn't have transportation otherwise.

<Begin Segment 15>

TI: Now because you were a worker, was it easier for you to get things to your father, like those rags and things?

YI: Yeah, I would tell, you know, the MP what it is. He'd kind of look at, I mean, but I think they would furnish some tools, like saw and hammer and chisel, you need those things to make geta.

TI: So in some ways your father was lucky, he got two visits a week then, from you and then your --

YI: Well, no, the family visit I think maybe was about every other week or something. Because they cannot have all the families going at one time. I don't think the mess hall was that big because that mess hall, if I remember correctly, was for the military. I think my father, folks had a separate area to do their own cooking I think.

TI: So a smaller place? Yeah, because I look at that concrete platform, it was pretty big.

YI: Yeah, I think that's for the, what you call, the MPs and the military.

TI: Did you get a sense to, were you able to look at or see the living quarters for your father and what that was like?

YI: No, no, but theirs was... so you know I don't see that in the pictures, it's a wooden structure, like, you know, a lean-to like and there must have been about six, at the most, eight people sleeping in bunks, you know.

TI: And so you saw that?

YI: I can see that because it's right inside the fence, yeah. And most of the time they were all sitting on the steps and, you know, it was pretty hot in there.

TI: Yeah, that's what, there is no wind or anything.

YI: They'd all be, what you call, in their t-shirt and BVDs and all be sitting outside.

TI: And so did he ever talk about life in camp, what was it like for him?

YI: Well, I didn't have that much time, you know, I mean, because I was supposed to working, right. So, I would ask him how he's doing, especially I was concerned about his ulcer. He said it's okay, he can eat regularly. But eventually though, after he came out of the camp, he had surgery, you know, and then the plantation doctor operated on him. They took out almost three-fourths of his stomach, you know, he survived 'til he was a hundred years old.

TI: Oh, really, a hundred years old, after removing so much of his stomach, that's interesting.

YI: See, I think he kind of willed himself, you know, President Reagan signed that executive order that internees --

TI: Oh, the Civil Liberties Act of 1988?

YI: Yeah, the people who were living on that day he signed it, would get some remuneration. So I think that was August or something?

TI: Yeah, he signed it in August 1988.

YI And he died in December of the year, December 1988, so he must have been hundred and about three months. But the money came to us survivors, we had to file a claim, $20,000 came to us.

TI: But he... back then he knew if he lived long enough, or lived after the signing --

YI: So he got his apology posthumously.

TI: Interesting. Going back to your father, anything else about Honouliuli that kind of strikes you as interesting, about the camp, because there aren't that many people who actually know about that camp and saw it.

YI: Not really, you know, because actually it didn't look like a POW camp. And of course, you know, I really didn't know what a POW... I mean, later on I read about it and saw pictures of what a POW camps in Philippines and even in Europe, but it was nothing like that. I think it was very peaceful, no animosity, you know, I mean, I think people accepted the fact that they were there. And I think, for one thing, I think they were well fed, you know, I think their needs were met. The Italians used to ask us, they want soda cans, and we asked why and they said they wanted to make lighter, you know, cigarette --

TI: Soda can, they would make a lighter?

YI: I don't know how they... but I think they were going to use it for something else, you know, so we never did, we never did give them cans because, you know, they can do all kind of things with it.

TI: How would they ask, while you're working, you were doing things?

YI: Yeah, the fence, I mean, some of them spoke, yeah. That's about it but they were farthest in, see, in the camp, I mean as we walked down into the camp, and you know where the aqueduct was, further in, they were the deepest in the camp. But other than that, because, actually it didn't concern me, except that the fact that my father was there, and then, he was well taken care of.

<Begin Segment 16>

TI: Now, when they took your father away in May 1944, what did people say to you? Was there any kind of stigma attached that your father was taken away right after this big explosion? Did people... like, were there rumors about your father or anything like that?

YI: The people didn't know, you know, and for one thing, we didn't know where he was too. So except for the people at the office, nobody knew that, you know, he was picked up.

TI: But then at the camp, you know, people saw the authorities there with your father, getting some things and then taking him away, did people wonder, like, this is the day right after that big explosion?

YI: No, because, the morning he was picked up, I think it was about seven o'clock that, you know, I mean, I was surprised that they knew where he was working for and thing, right, to pick him up. My sister was home and my sister was a office worker for the plantation, so she was still home. Other than my father opening up the place and superintendents that, you know, had to pick up paper or stuff, nobody else was there.

TI: Okay, so no one really saw what happened. Okay, with them taking your father away, he was like one of the main bread winners for the family, did people help your family after they took your father away?

YI: No, no, it wasn't necessary because my sister was already working and then I went to work.

TI: Your mother was still doing her work?

YI: No, by then I guess she didn't have to already.

TI: Okay. Then after the war is over, you know, they released your father in September 1945, did he look any different when he came out? I mean, how was he when he was released?

YI: No, he didn't look any different. I don't remember really that day except in that, see, they were released because the war ended, they bombed Hiroshima --

TI: In August 1945 and then a month later, September, he was released.

YI: So I guess they released him and they closed the camp. So the camp probably has been closed then from that day, you know, they had no use for it. So whatever that was there, people must have gone in and taken the building apart and then taken the lumber and stuff like that.

TI: Okay, you know, in August 1945, you know, they dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, your mother and father were from Hiroshima-ken, did they have family that was affected?

YI: Yeah, actually my mother's half-brother's family was affected. My uncle was a postmaster but he was postmaster for Okayama, which is a neighboring prefecture, but my aunt and my... I have three cousins, the youngest died because they were exposed to the radiation, much later though, but my cousin died when she was about forty-five, before fifty because she was a child. She was the only child at home, the others were relocated, school kids relocated, and I was told that the blast, they were out in the yard and the blast blew them into the house and then they got thrown against the wall. So eventually she died of leukemia and my aunt too eventually, you know, she got all kind of problems and she died.

TI: So in the camp, you know, when the atomic happened, you know, there were others who from Hiroshima-ken, what happened, was there a lot of talk about that or concern about the bomb and what happened?

YI: You know, I think they kept it quiet, you know, I don't think we knew about it. Was there some, I mean, you people researched it but they didn't make it known that they dropped bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

TI: So there's nothing in the papers? I haven't done the research if there's anything in terms of --

YI: I don't think so that I can find.

TI: So still sort of top secret, the atomic bomb. So people didn't really know what happened for a while, until later.

YI: And then you know, by then because of the war, I think most of us all lost communication with Japan, I think so.

<Begin Segment 17>

TI: With the war now over, what did you do, what was your life like after the war is over, your father's now back, so what did you do?

YI: Well, actually, you know, if I really wanted, I could have gone back to college, and I ended up being a drop out. And I did all kinds of stuff, you know, and then I think in 1947 I was hired by the Honolulu Board of Water Supply and then, you know, I worked thirty something, thirty-two years at the Board of Water Supply.

TI: And what happened to Waipahu, you know, the plantation, the camp? What happened?

YI: Well, let me see now, I got married in 1949 and my wife and I lived with my folks, in fact, we're the only ones, my brother was in the military and he was at language school and my younger sister was going to college I think already. And then, I think we lived a couple years in Waipahu as a married couple and then the army started to dismantle their buildings, they no longer needed it, see. And you know, they built military housing all over the place because there was a big, what you call, contingent of military. And then they put some of the buildings up for sale, you know, and my (brother-in-law) bid for one of the buildings, big barracks, you know. And he said if I help him that he'll give me some of the lumber, so he, his brother, and the three of us went to dismantle the building and good lumber, I mean, you know, good lumber. And my brother-in-law had a big property way out in Nanakuli, and he said, "Why don't you build a house there?" you know. So, did you know that I built a three bedroom house by myself? I was not a carpenter but I was working at the Water Supply and the engineers, you know, taught me how to do things, you know, how to set the footing and stuff. So I only needed to hire carpenters to cut the rafters, I didn't know how to do that. I built a three bedroom house without electricity, we had to use gas and then my wife started to teach at that community, Nanakuli (Elementary School), so that was it, yeah.

TI: Well, that's pretty amazing, to build your own house, that would be a pretty daunting task to think about.

YI: Yeah, I used to go weekends and you know, do as much as I can. It wasn't that hard though, I mean, you know, basically... and the lumber was fit to build house, you know. After you paint it and sand it, it looked like new lumber, and those were good lumber, not the fresh lumber like today. Some of my friends helped me and then the friends at the Water Supply helped me with the plumbing, oh, I guess I had electrician way later when the power was available. And then we moved in and I finished up over the weekends.

TI: That's a good story. What about your parents in terms of, you know, the camp, the plantation, what happened?

YI: Okay, so my son was born 1955, January, so that September we had a fire, the plantation house burned down and I think I burned it down because we had the bath house and then because the bath, ofuro is only to soak, right? So you don't change the water every day, so the second and third day, the water is soft, you don't need too much fire to get the water heated. So I used to burn a lot newspaper so I get the fast heat and you know. And naturally the surrounding wood get kind of scorched, right, if you... so one night my son was about nine months, oh, and because I had a bad cold I slept in another room and the room that I slept in was next to the bathroom, you know. Then I smelled smoke, and my whole room was smoky, you know, and so I got the family out and tried to fight the fire but we don't have a fire system, and plantation, they had a fire truck but it was not the standard fire equipment, so you know they had standard pipes for emergency, use it, in the whatever fire truck they had. So when city and county fire truck came, their coupler didn't fit the plantation plumbing so the house burned down. Afterwards, they were trying to save my neighbors.

TI: So this was a plantation house?

YI: Then, you know, fortunately my sister had enough room so we, five of us move in with my sister. Then we had (to find) our property to build our house and the property that we live in today belonged to Oahu Sugar was the developer, through the agent, anyway and when it was offered to employees, well, my father was an employee, we didn't think about buying the property. So finally when I had to buy it, I had to pay twice the amount per square foot.

TI: Oh, so if you bought it when they offered to employees, it'd have been --

YI: And that's the plantation mentality, right, we were comfortable living in the plantation because they provided all our amenities, you know, they give us firewood, finally they bring in electricity, electricity was free, rent was free, so our mentality with kids that grew in the city were different. They're all working to buy a property and resettle, right, well, we're planning to stay in that free environment, you know, so I think that's the difference in the, what you call, living mentality.

TI: That's interesting.

YI: We were comfortable so, you know, many of them eventually moved out from the sugar plantation but there was no urgency to buy property and build your own home. I think that's true for all plantation workers, I think.

TI: Do many of the camp people still live Waipahu, that area?

YI: Eventually, I think what happens, not in the case of Waipahu but they sold it to the employees, you know. But it wasn't too long because all the sugar plantations on this island, what you call, went kaput, there's no sugar plantation on this island. There are some communities where they bought the home from the plantation. I don't know whether they bought it outright or, you know, whether they're leasing it or not.

<Begin Segment 18>

TI: Okay, so, Yutaka, that's all my questions, is there anything else that you want to talk about that maybe I forgot or didn't ask you about that you want to talk about?

YI: That's about it, you know, mine is a pretty simple life. [Laughs]

TI: No, it's really interesting though. Thank you for sharing all the stories, especially about the plantation life, I didn't know as much.

YI: I think it's almost same in every sugar plantation, I think because, the thing is that we never talked about kenjinkai. Let me see now, my neighbor, I know was from Hiroshima-ken and then there was some Okinawa-ken people and there was Fukushima, Niigata, Yamaguchi but no reference was made to, you know, where they came from in Japan because, it was, I mean, it was nobody's business, right, I mean, most of them had nothing to talk about, you know, and they never talked... anybody in my family, they never talked to us about Japan. And we didn't know any better to ask, I think.

TI: But how about when you're growing up, did your parents want you to marry Hiroshima-ken, did they talk about that?

YI: Yeah, well, now I'm very involved with the gunjinkai, okay, this is the, I guess a district in Hiroshima, I think there are five or six district in Hiroshima. So... what was I going to say? So we talk about it, I've taken my group, the Takata Gunjinkai group members, I've taken them to Takata-gun three times in the last fifteen or twenty years. You know, what we call furusato. In fact, I'm planning another one this year in November.

TI: So it sounds like you want to keep this connection?

YI: Yes, I want the members to stay connected to their family and most of them don't speak Japanese, very limited so if they would give me the lead, you know, like telephone number, I would call and say that, "I'm calling on Tom Ikeda's behalf. Your relatives, so and so, in Hawaii would like to meet you, you know, we would plan to come to Japan in November. We don't have the details of the exact itinerary but if you will agree to meet me, then they would be very pleased." And from there on primarily just to go get the koseki, you know, the family registry and then to go hakamairi and then most of them they have tears in their eyes, you know, hakamairi.

TI: It's a little ironic or interesting, you know, earlier in the story you talk about how your father would, you know, help communicate for some of the workers back to Japan with the letters, he would write letters back and forth. And you're doing a similar thing now, you're helping Japanese Americans connect to their homeland by over the phone communicating for them, so it's like in some ways you're doing the same thing your father did.

YI: And then some of the villages are disappearing, right, they merged into a bigger one. So trying to compile a record, you know, where the immigrants came from and I don't find it in the map today because those small, what you call, villages no longer exist. But I have... I was able to get an immigration list from Takata-gun and there about 2,700 names in there, you know. And I understand there's a master list of immigrants from Hiroshima and the city hall in Takata-gun went and extracted their Takata-gun people that immigrated, I think it's all to Hawaii. The only problem is that some the Japanese names are hard to read, so I'm telling the members that well, give me something that I can match with, the immigration list and just last week, I found, what you call, a family's immigration information.

TI: Interesting, so you do lots of research for families.

YI: Yeah, but very limited, you know, because I'm can't read or write, I mean, to the extent that, you know.

TI: But then it's so appreciative because families are able to make that connection that most of us have lost in many ways.

YI: Yeah, I think that's important, you know, and the kids are beginning to ask about their roots, yeah, and so I mean for many of them it's a blank, I mean, you know, some of them don't even know what part of Japan their parents came from. And I think that's sad, yeah.

TI: Well, so Yutaka, thank you so much for doing this interview. This was good, this was really interesting.

YI: I think I rambled but...

TI: No, no, this was really good, you're a good story teller, this was good, thank you so much.