<Begin Segment 22>

TI: So tell me the influence of the military. You said after high school you're drafted. Well, first I should, I should point out, at this point you're not a U.S. citizen. You're, you were born in Japan.

RM: Exactly.

TI: And you weren't naturalized.

RM: Exactly.

TI: So how did you feel about that? You, you're not even a U.S. citizen and they're drafting you into the U.S. Army.

RM: I questioned that, and a very intelligent looking sergeant came out of the office and said, "Well, if you don't want to remain in the army then you have to go back to Japan." And of course that, again, is one of these real situations where you have to make a decision, and it became very obvious that I didn't want to go home and be a Japanese, whether I was welcome there or not, I wanted to be an American. And the only way to remain in Hawaii and have some chance at becoming an American was to stay in the military. And of course I was infantry and I figured I could handle that.

TI: What, talk a little bit about the army life, because you said infantry, but in your writings you talk about how you thought of yourself as this juvenile delinquent and not being able to do much, but then in the army you actually saw a different side of yourself.

RM: It's absolute discipline. You have to do everything after you've been told to do it. It's absolutely the opposite from being in a middle class or even upper middle class family going to a private school, exactly the opposite. They tell you to take this shovel which they put in your hand, say "dig a hole," you dig a hole. Then after you dig a hole, even if it starts raining, they say, "Sleep in it tonight," and you sleep in it. And it's like, in Germany it was like forty degrees, so cold that you could see people's breath comin' out of these holes in the side of the mountain. And then they'll tell you to dig a hole and make sure it's deep enough because there's gonna be, they're gonna run a tank over it and they run a bloody tank over you after you finish. [Laughs] I was lucky. I had a, had a bunch of Puerto Rican kids that were in my squad and one of the guys could really dig. I've never seen anybody dig so fast. He helped me dig my hole. He slept in that, the tank went over us and we were okay. [Laughs]

KN: Did you appreciate the discipline of army life?

RM: Now what?

KN: It's so different. Did you appreciate the discipline of army life, 'cause it was so different?

RM: There's no appreciating it because it's shoved down your throat. If you fall asleep in a meeting or something like that, he -- they tell you it's a history course, but I learned all that stuff at Punahou already -- they come out and hammer your, your helmet liner. They give you the inside liner of the helmet that we wear most of the time and we very rarely wear the heavy one because, jeez, it weighs pounds. I mean, it's all steel for, to stop a bullet it's got to be, you learn about the physical facts by wearing this iron pot, and then the rest of the time if you got the iron, iron pot off and you're dozing off somebody, wham, comes and hits you over the top of the head.

TI: But how did the military life change you, though? I mean, by having so much discipline, how did that change you?

RM: I never appreciated 'til I got out, and then I began to realize that, hey, the stuff that we're doing was totally stupid, without any reason at all. The only justification they ever said, they ever talked about was that "the Russians are three and a half minutes over the border by jet airplane. We have to be ready." And you're digging a hole? [Laughs] Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Nothing in the military ever did. And they'd never be able to convince me that it did make any sense, but I know somebody's got to be the cannon fodder. Talked to a lot of guys that ended up in Korea, the guys that I was drafted with, went to Korea and they were in that Chosin Reservoir retreat when MacArthur had to pull his armies back, and they said Chinese soldiers just keep comin' and comin' and comin'. You could shoot, you'd run out of ammunition. You could throw rocks at 'em and they'd still keep comin'. And there would be, like there's one guy that we ran into that was a, that had a Congressional Medal of Honor, I think, for bravery, and he was one of the cavalry at Schofield, Hawaiian guy, and they said they had counted something like, something like sixty dead Chinese around the gun emplacement that he was defending before he finally got shot and stabbed and they left him for dead. But then recovered, but that's the reason why he's a hero. I mean, number one, the number of people that died just involved in that particular meeting, it's incredible. It's beyond being able to comprehend.

TI: Now, why was it that your friends went to Korea and you went to Germany?

RM: We were, we went to headquarters after I finished basic training, they kept me over for a little extra training. They called it leadership class, I think it was. That's 'cause I'm the biggest one. I'd always be the first one in line. They line you up by height, I'd be the first one up there, so you get the hold of the guide, the guide on, and then when you, when you're running as a platoon or whatever you'd be in the front. And then of course I guess I was right up there where people could watch me, so they decided, okay, go to leadership school. And when I went to leadership school -- we're at the headquarters company -- and there was a old master sergeant there, one of these guys that got more stripes than can hang on his arm already, and he had taught ROTC at Punahou School. I think he remembered my brother. Not me, Victor. Good boy, did what he's told to do. [Laughs] And so he said, "Well, Ramsay, where do you want to go?" I said, "Oh, I don't know. I've never been to Europe." "Let me see what I can do." Next thing I got orders for Germany. I don't know how Punahou weaves itself into my life that many times, but it did. I can't tell you why. I'm glad I didn't go to Farrington. I shouldn't say that, but I did.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.