<Begin Segment 21>

TI: And so when this happened what was your reaction? I mean, was this something that totally surprised you, or what were you feeling about this?

RM: Well, I actually watched her die because, because my mother heard her calling and she, of course, probably realized that she was having problems, and I don't think my mother wanted to be confronted by the actual reality of it, so she called me to go in with her. And like I described her being in bed already and being almost comatose and her eyes turning up in her head so all you could see was the white of her eyes. And then gasp, gasping for air before she finally went completely unconscious. But of course that was the first time I've seen anybody die and it was very dramatic because she was probably the closest person that I've ever known. You don't realize how much you've lost, when somebody dies, until you've actually experienced it. You just never know that. But I have thought about that a lot.

TI: And what do you think you lost when, when Pearl died?

RM: Again?

TI: What did, when you say you don't know what you lost until it happens, what did you lose when Pearl died?

RM: Well, it has to, that summary has to come, from what I've thought about her and what conviction I have about her from the period hence, and I know that, that she had to be a very, very valuable person, in any way. Not just to my mother, but to, to me as well. Up to that point she was my sister; I hated her. Brothers, brothers don't love their sisters, not 'til much later after they've lost 'em.

TI: Now, do you think of this as an, a result of what happened to your family during the war? How would you characterize --

RM: Well, I think the turmoil that drove her to it was basically the same thing that I was goin' through. It was just expressed in a different way. And she, of course, resolved it in a different way as well. I mentioned -- no, I won't do that. I'm not gonna mention it again. I was gonna bring something up, but it, I shouldn't do it, so I won't.

TI: Okay. So after the suicide, you write about people now being worried about you, in terms of a lot of attention spent in terms of, of...

RM: Because of the way that I, my character developed, the direction that I went, I don't think anybody felt sorry for me. I don't think that they felt that I was sensitive enough to deserve it.

TI: Why, say that again. So you...

RM: I mean I was a, I was a total asshole is the only way I can put it. And everybody knew that. So I don't think I got any sympathy out of that. I did, I take that back. There's a guy, a very well known guy named Sparky Matsunaga, who eventually ended up as a senator, and he came up to me personally, of all the people that came to the funeral he's the only person that came up to me personally and said, "Ramsay, if you ever need help, do not hesitate to come to see me." That gave me a very good feeling about Sparky and how he felt about me and the fact that I must have some worth for him to make that opportunity known. I'd forgotten about that, but I'm glad I mentioned it, 'cause I really think of all the people I've met, he's the guy that I admire most, guy that could quote poetry and still work up in Washington.

TI: And how did you know --

RM: I don't think he's a Punahou boy, though. [Laughs]

TI: So how did you know Sparky Matsunaga during this time?

RM: Family friend.

TI: I see. Okay.

RM: A lot of those guys got scholarships to go to school. 'Course, a lot of it was GI Bill, but got scholarships to go to school originally through a Japanese group that my grandfather and my father administered. You know Marumoto?

TI: Good. So let's talk about, so in terms of the family life after, you know, so your sister committed suicide, so how did the family life change after this? Again, you said it was difficult. Things like keeping you in school. I know there's lots of efforts to have you stay at Punahou and rather than just kicking you out because you weren't doing --

RM: 1953, immediately after I was, not immediately, a few weeks before I graduated the army called and drafted me, told me to report to Schofield for military service. And so for the next two years I was very busy, being a GI, yeah.

TI: But they let you graduate first, though, before you...

RM: Yes. Well, my father had to request that they delay it slightly to just let me graduate. They'd already waited a year, as far as they're concerned, but...

TI: Now, during this, this period, again, I read your, your memoirs, and it felt like you didn't really care whether you graduated or not and yet you, you graduated. Thinking back, are you glad that you were able to graduate from Punahou?

RM: I'm very glad that I finished school and I'm very glad that I finished at Punahou. I'm very glad that they, I feel very obligated they, they did permit me to graduate. Not obligated, that's the wrong word.

TI: Appreciative, maybe.

RM: On. On wa nan desu ka.

KN: Obligation?

RM: Huh?

KN: Obligation.

RM: Obligated. Okay.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.