<Begin Segment 17>

MN: Now, how long were you incarcerated at Santa Anita?

TI: About three months. April, May, June... no, more than that. Let's see. May, June, July, and then first of August we went to Heart Mountain. So three and a half months, maybe.

MN: Now, when your family was going to be transferred to a more permanent camp, did they tell you where you were going?

TI: No, not a word.

MN: Now, how did you get to Heart Mountain?

TI: On a vintage World War I train. [Laughs] I say that because the train had gaslights. I had never seen gaslights before in my life, and I was intrigued that the conductor would come along with a flame torch and light the gaslights at night.

MN: And then you were also talking about these Excelsior seats. What is an Excelsior seat?

TI: It's shredded wood, and it was compacted down. It was so old and it was compacted down so hard, that it was just rock hard. We had to sit on rock hard Excelsior-upholstered seats, and the seats were covered with mohair, and the mohair had big circles of holes in it, and I could see the Excelsior.

MN: Now, did you have to sleep sitting up?

TI: Yes.

MN: How did you make yourself comfortable?

TI: We were so uncomfortable that my seatmate and I would take turns lying down on two seats, getting our pressure off our back. And I envy the boys, they were allowed to sleep on the floor in the dining car at night.

MN: How many days did it take for you to get to Heart Mountain?

TI: It took us four days and three nights because we ran into... what do you call it? A very heavy rainstorm. And the water just covered the tracks, so it was unsafe to go on these tracks. So we got set aside for long periods of time before we were allowed to continue.

MN: So it was like a flash flood on the tracks.

TI: Yeah. A cloudburst.

MN: Did you get sick on the train or did other people get sick?

TI: I don't remember anyone getting sick, but there was a train for infirm and babies, those that had babies, and they had a Pullman car so they could sleep on the two-decker bunks.

MN: Now, did the train take you straight to Heart Mountain or did you transfer onto a bus?

TI: No. The, Heart Mountain had railroad tracks come right up to it. So we disembarked at Heart Mountain.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.