<Begin Segment 9>

MN: Let me still ask you now, you also mentioned when you first got here, you went to the Buddhist church and you tried to mingle with the Niseis there. How did that go?

TH: Well, it didn't go too well. I was pretty shy, and also the Nisei seemed to have their own group, which is natural, I suppose. Besides, I didn't speak English and I kind of behaved differently. Well, I don't blame them for that.

MN: So was it really hard to mingle with the Niseis? Did they look down on the Kibeis?

TH: Well, it's not that. I don't think it's just... you know, Kibeis are a little different, so, of course, they have their own group, and Kibeis started having their own groups.

MN: So yourself, your friends, were they mostly Kibeis?

TH: Oh, yeah.

MN: And at this time, what were your parents doing for a living?

TH: They operated a little cafe where they sold beer and a light meal on Franklin Street in Oakland.

MN: And how did this cafe get its name and what was its name?

TH: You mean the name?

MN: Name of the cafe?

TH: Oh, name of the cafe? My father named it Nana. He was a kind of frustrated poet, and he admired a writer like Emerson and Whitman, and Nana came from the novel by... who was that who wrote Nana? Well, that famous French novelist.

MN: Now, did you have to help out at the cafe?

TH: Yeah, usually I cleaned up the floor.

MN: What was your relationship like with your stepfather?

TH: Very nice. Yeah, he was a very understanding person. So on Franklin Street, across the street, there was a Japanese cleaner, and next to it was a Japanese furo, bathhouse, and he used to take me there and get into the Japanese-style tub together. He was really trying to be, you know, get close to me, to communicate with me. I appreciate that.

MN: And you said your stepfather was a frustrated poet?

TH: Well, he wrote Japanese-style and freestyle haiku. And he belonged to this group called "Popy-Sha."

MN: Popy-Sha?

TH: Well, sha is a club, you know.

MN: So your stepfather did the haiku, and your uncle in Japan was an amateur painter, and it sounds like your father's side was very artistic.

TH: Yeah, seems to be. Except my grandfather, who was -- I hate to say this -- but at the parting, when you say "goodbye," he said, "The most important thing in life is money." I was kind of disappointed.

MN: Now, what about your stepfather? Did he encourage you to draw and paint?

TH: Well, in a way. He didn't come out and say I should do this or attend art school, but he backed me up.

MN: Now, I'm gonna go back a little bit, and you mentioned about your family moving to Sixth Street in Oakland, and it was, this apartment was owned by Okinawans.

TH: Yeah.

MN: And that time in Japan, Okinawans were discriminated against very heavily. How did you feel about living in an apartment...

TH: Oh, nothing. I didn't know anything about it. At that time, their name was Dakuzaku, but later, the parents' son changed it to... gosh, he became a dentist. Changed his name.

MN: Why did he change his name?

TH: Gee, I don't know.

MN: Now, in 1940, your mother became sick. What happened to her?

TH: Oh, she had a heart ailment. She also had a thyroid problem, probably that caused the heart problem. And she was, most of the time she was bedridden, and also stayed in a hospital for a while. So my stepfather was having a rough time.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.