<Begin Segment 22>

MN: And so in late '44 when the issue of renunciation came up, why did you renounce your U.S. citizenship?

TH: When did it come? This is '44?

MN: Yes, in late '44.

TH: Late '44. Well, I think it's because I answered "no-no," and well...

MN: Well, you may not have renounced late '44, let me put it that way. The law passed in late '44. If you're getting confused about the time.

TH: Law passed to allow...

MN: People to renounce in time of war. Do you recall why you decided to renounce?

TH: Well, it's because I answered "no-no," and then my folks were basically ready to go back to Japan. And as far as I'm concerned, there seems to be no future in the United States, what's the use of... because you're not really thinking things through. So heck, I thought I'd renounce it and go back to Japan.

MN: And did you discuss this with your mother and stepfather?

TH: Must have, yeah.

MN: Now, what made you change your mind?

TH: Well, of course, you heard that Japan was defeated, and when you started thinking about the future, you realize that it was a dumb thing to do. Because of the mass hysteria, you said "no-no," might as well renounce it and go back to Japan without thinking too deeply. You realize that it was, it didn't have any meaning, real meaning. As far as answering "no-no" has some meaning, meaning of protest with renouncing and going back to Japan, it doesn't have much meaning.

MN: Why wouldn't it have much meaning?

TH: Well, when you renounce your citizenship and try to go back to Japan, there's no place to go back to Japan anyway. And renouncing isn't much of a protest, I don't think. "No-no" has some meaning as a protest. No?

MN: But this government is the one that put you in camp.

TH: Yeah. So "no-no" has a meaning, I think, it's a very important meeting. But more or less renouncing is more or less, I feel that it is more or less, we were tricked into it by the government that wanted to get rid of all the "disloyals." Does that make sense?

MN: You just said "disloyals." Did you consider yourself a "disloyal"?

TH: To the United States?

MN: I don't know. You said "disloyals." You used that word right now. Why did you, why did you call these people "disloyals"?

TH: Which people?

MN: I don't know, that's what I'm asking you.

TH: Well, when you answer "no-no," it's basically saying you're disloyal to the United States, right?

MN: Are you, but is that why you answered "no-no"?

TH: It's a protest.

MN: Did you consider yourself disloyal?

TH: No. If I wasn't interned, if I was outside and I was asked to fight for the United States, I would have, no question. Of course, that's the right thing to do. But after putting us through, make us lose our livelihood and putting us through horse stalls and you sent to the middle of the desert, then asking for loyalty is, you might say, "Baka ni shiteru."

MN: You thought the government was making fools out of you guys.

TH: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.