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JG: Thank you. That was a very thoughtful and thought provoking answer about, about the future and about what you're dealing with now, 'cause it's, it's interesting, and I was just thinking as you were talking about the historical contingencies that gave rise to both Little Tokyo and to a church like Centenary. It was about having a space that could help initially immigrants adapt to the society in which they were living at a time when American society was very, not only just dubious of Asian immigrants generally, but, you know, virulently racist to Asian immigrants, and just having you map out that kind of, some of the changes that you've witnessed really gives some sense of how far the community has come and some of the challenges that lie ahead with regards to community organizations meeting a different set of historical contingencies. Now it's, you're talking about Japanese, recent Japanese immigrants, they're actually profiting from America's fascination with things like sushi or even just popular culture generally, manga, things like that, so that's very interesting. I just, I appreciated that answer. This is my last question. We could go on, but I'll show some restraint, at least I'll try to. And then if you have anything you'd like to add, we haven't covered, there are many, many things that would be interesting to talk to, including, I know you've been doing a lot of interfaith work, working with Muslim communities and that would be very interesting, but I'll save that for our next interview at some other point in the future. My last question to you is this: in light of what you've just told me, now, you recently, you, I wouldn't even just say are an amateurist or, you are a historian of these experiences of Japanese American churches. You recently authored a paper, "No Longer Strangers and Aliens," for your conference about the role these churches, Japanese American Methodist churches, have played historically, and I'm just wondering, kind of as a final, as a coda to what you've talked about in the course of our, these two interviews, what do you want people to know? If someone is looking at this a hundred years from now, what would you want someone to know about the role that Japanese American Methodist churches have played in the history of your community?

MN: I want them to know that our Japanese American churches play a very pivotal role in the development of our community and by extension in the development of our people. I would also want them to know that our churches are the points where Japanese American community started. Years ago, when I spoke with the late Yuji Ichioka, who wrote that very well-known book, The Issei: The World of the First Generation Japanese Immigrants, I asked him a very pointed question. I said, "You know, Yuji, I'm really surprised that the first two chapters of your book, you primarily talk about the role of the Fukuinkai, the Gospel Society, and the role of the early Japanese Christian, Issei Christians in America." And I said, "I'm really surprised because I don't know that you aren't Christian, but my sense is you may be Buddhist or Shinto or otherwise, but I was just shocked," I told Yuji, after the first few chapters, thinking that, wow, here's a scholar whose devoted the first two chapters of his prize winning book talking about the role of the churches, where most Asian American scholars, and especially Japanese American scholars, have really given short shrift to churches, at least in all the scholarly work I've seen. So I was curious, I asked Yuji why he devoted the first two chapters of his book primarily to the role of the churches and those Issei Christians, and his answer was very, very direct and to the point. He said, "Mark, because it's true. This is where the Issei community started. It was with the churches." And he said, "It doesn't matter what religion I might be. As a historian, this is what I've uncovered and this is what I've researched." And again, coming from a guy like Yuji Ichioka, that was very, very... well, I have to say very, very shocking, but very, very exciting for me to hear that, and really it was from that point on that my interest in Japanese American church history really did start to deepen and got me involved in doing the research and picking up all these materials over the years wherever I would find them. So my longwinded answer to your question is I want people years from now who might see this interview to know that our churches were places where the community started and our churches were places that brought people together, that sustained and strengthened people's lives, and were it not for our churches, the course of history, in spite of all of the struggles, all of the hardships we've endured and have gone through, for the most part I would say rather well, things might've turned out much more differently had it not been for the faith of those first generation, first generation Issei Christians, the work of those pastors, and then followed by the hard work of the Niseis who had to rebuild everything coming back from the camps. Things would've turned out, I think, much more differently and I think in many ways much more... not as well for us, had it not been for our churches and the people who faithfully supported them and carried on their mission.

JG: That's wonderful. Thank you. Is there anything that you would like to say or that we didn't talk about? I mean, we've talked about a fair bit, mind you. It's two interviews, but it's still, having known you as long as I have and appreciating your friendship, there are many aspects that we could, could have talked about. I'm just curious, is there anything else you would like to say in, kind of by way of concluding our interview today?

MN: I just want to thank you, Jim, and also to Densho for giving me this opportunity. Gosh, I never realized I had all this to say, and just thank you for this great opportunity. If nothing else, there, there are two types of people in this world, those who think before they talk and then those who think as they talk, and I think I'm probably in the latter camp. And I've really had an opportunity to clarify a lot of things that I've thought about over the years in talking with you and, and being able to respond to your questions, so thank you so much, and you know, this is really spurred me now to go on and do more research, maybe write another paper and, and do a few more things.

JG: That's great.

MN: So thank you so much.

JG: Thank you, Mark.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.