<Begin Segment 10>

JG: In many ways -- and you might disagree with this assertion and I'd be very happy to hear if you, if you do -- but having done work on the history of Japanese American Methodist churches, it, it's not a huge leap to suggest that this really is in some ways the, I don't know, the seat of, at least in Southern California, of Japanese American Methodism. I mean, this really is probably one of, if not the most important church in the network, at least one of the most important, and I'm just wondering how that has factored into your leadership role and into the work you do here and into the kind of unique, and I mean, this is kind of leading to this idea of thinking about the future of the Japanese American community and thinking about the future of Japanese American churches, 'cause you and I have had conversations offline from the interview about the changing demographics of this community, and you've noted that this isn't the church that you grew up in, and I'm just wondering if you could talk about, a little bit about some of the, I don't know, some of the issues you're contending with here as the minister of this church, whether it's with the kind of the demographic transition with the passing of the Nisei or an, being in an, kind of in an urban setting, skid row is two blocks away from here. So I've just, like, asked you a huge, huge question, but tackle it however you want and we'll, we'll kind of unpack it a little bit.

MN: [Laughs] I appreciate these questions, and you know, Jim, that these are questions I think about every day, every, every waking moment, and, but let me start with the first part of the question, about Centenary being the seat of Japanese American Methodism, I think that's how you put it, or being the historic church and all this. Gosh, I know I'm, no matter what I say I'm gonna offend or upset some people, some of the pastors. Let me say this, growing up as a kid at Centenary, Centenary's always special to me and it was special to Japanese Americans here in Los Angeles and I just knew intuitively or for whatever reason, just growing up in Centenary, that Centenary was a very important place in the Japanese American community, even when we were over on Normandy and 35th, which for the, a generation ago, the Seinan area, the Crenshaw area was a very, very well-known and very, very popular place for Japanese Americans to grow up in and to hang out. So I kind of had that sense growing up, but Centenary's influence, or perceived importance, maybe that's a better term, really didn't start to hit me until I had left the church, gone to seminary and then gone out and started my, my pastoring, because along the way I would hear thing from other, people at other churches. I would hear comments like, "Wow, Centenary, that's the cathedral church," or "Centenary, that's the big church, " or "Centenary, every, every Japanese American minister has, every Japanese American minister who's anybody has served that church." [Laughs] I would hear comments like that, and whether or not I agreed with them, whether or not they were true, it really, I have to say, along the way, and these were people who were living in Sacramento or people I would meet from Fresno or people I would meet from Seattle or Denver who I would hear these comments from, and it wasn't until then that I really realized how much of an image Centenary had, not just here in Los Angeles, but regionally and, and nationally as well. And naturally, it was very nice to hear those comments, but, but again, it really made an impact on me when I started to hear these comments from people who were hundreds or thousands of miles removed from Centenary yet knew about Centenary in some, in this way. So let me say that, for what it's worth, do I agree with a lot of those comments? But let me just say it's nice to hear those comments and I appreciate them and I only hope that to the extent that there's any truth in those comments that, since I'm the one here now, that I can carry on that tradition and that legacy of faith that this church, both in its former location and the current location, has imparted over the generations, over the centuries, I guess, by now I have to say.

With regards to where we are today and our role here in the community and what I perceive to be the future of the community, those issues really form the sixty-four thousand dollar question, not just of Centenary, but I think of all Japanese American churches and I would even go so far as to say of all Japanese American organizations. Whether you're talking about the JACL or the VFW or the community cultural centers, the museums, whatever, I think those issues all put us in the same boat, and here's where I come out on that: there was a time when the Japanese American identity was rooted in geography. All Japanese, most Japanese Americans and most Japanese American organizations, be it a church, a temple, community center, everybody, those people who those places served and those places were all in the same neighborhood, but that's not true anymore. For the most part, those organizations are still in the same neighborhood, but the people who have traditionally belonged to those organizations and the people who those organizations have served have moved out of those areas, so there's now a disparity or a difference between where those organizations are located, but yet where those constituencies live. Centenary's a perfect example. Whether we would've stayed on Normandy and 35th Street or moved back down to Little Tokyo, the fact of the matter is the people who come to church would still be driving in on Sunday mornings from a radius of anywhere five to ten, in some cases, twenty or thirty miles away, okay? And that's true for almost every Japanese American church or temple, every organization that here in Southern California, which probably is, is the paradigm for most Japanese American communities anywhere, is that during the last generation, the younger families, i.e.Sanseis, have moved out of the traditional neighborhoods where we grew up and have moved into the suburbs or, or exurbs, I guess, as we call 'em nowadays, and have established residences there. But here's the thing, what keeps us viable is that, from what I see, most of the Japanese Americans who have moved out of the neighborhood, if I can use that phrase, still continue to see our churches and our temples and our community organizations as having some important place in their lives. It could be just from the standpoint of institutional memory, maybe brings back good memories of their childhood. It may be the place where they got baptized or it may be the organization where they belonged to the Boy Scout or the Girl Scout troops. It may be the VFW hall where their father or where their parents belonged to. But I think, or at least I'd like to think, that even though the Japanese American community, we're now a diaspora, we've scattered all over the place, still, those Japanese Americans continue to have some sense of importance or place a degree of importance on those organizations, institutions, churches, temples, etcetera, that still are by and large in the same neighborhoods where they once lived. Let me just say that, first of all.

However, going forward, it's clear to me that those relationships aren't going to keep Centenary as a church viable or alive, if I can use that term. And I think that's true for a lot of other organizations. We are in a position where we have both an obligation but as well a responsibility and most importantly, I think, an opportunity to expand the ministry of the church beyond its historic Japanese American constituency. But here's where I think I differ from some other folks who have this same idea: my view of things is that yes, as a church we need to be a church for all people. We always have been a church for all people; it's just that our emphasis, due to historical reasons, has always focused on the Japanese American community. But what has also changed, in addition to this church physically moving back down to Little Tokyo, where a lot of Japanese Americans don't live anymore, what has also changed, though, over the years, has been the definition of Japanese American, and it's, it's been a change in definition both for the people as well as for the organizations. I mean, I guess it goes by definition. If, if an individual's definition, or if a, if a demographic's definition of themselves change, then it must follow that definitions of the organizations that serve them are gonna change, too.

A very elementary example of what I mean, there was a time when the definition Japanese American meant one of a couple or two or three things. It meant that your parents were both Japanese American or that your grandparents came from Japan or that at least one of your parents was Japanese American and possibly the other parent was not. Nowadays those limited definitions just can't hold in and of themselves anymore because due to intermarriage, for one reason, the family has expanded and the definition of our identity has expanded as well. By the same token, the broader American culture has embraced things that traditionally were just things that interested only Japanese Americans and Japanese nationals. I guess the most relevant example, the most obvious example is sushi bars, okay, or maybe now as karaoke bars. I don't think people really fully understand that -- Japanese Americans don't understand -- that the larger American culture has absorbed Japanese culture and Japanese American culture so much that we now have an opportunity to use our Japanese American culture to communicate our faith maybe in ways that we never were able to beforehand. When people come to a Japanese American church, I think, I've been told this, quite frankly, by some folks that they come knowing, if not expecting they're gonna have Japanese food at the potluck or, or meet people who speak Japanese or, or hear Japanese language spoken, and they expect that and they like that. I mean, why else would they come to church here at a church like Centenary? Now, granted the majority language we speak day to day is English, but when I talk to non-Japanese Americans who tell me that, "I've learned about the internment and I've heard about, I have a friend who's father was in the 442nd," and then they show up to Centenary or another Japanese American church, well, that tells me that obviously there's a comfort level they feel about coming here and that there's a comfort level that this church imparts to them that makes them feel welcome and is not threatening to them.

The interesting thing to me is recently here at Centenary we have had Korean Americans, what's called, I guess, one point five or second generation Korean, Korean Americans attending worship here, and I mean, I think it's great, but I once asked one of them who was a young professional, an attorney, I asked him -- well, before I asked him the question I said, "You know, I, it's great having you hear and I'm glad you're hear, but I just got to ask you, with all the Korean churches there are here in L.A. of all places, why you coming to us?" And he said, "There's a certain comfort level that I feel here that I don't feel at a lot of other churches, including some Korean churches." He said, "You speak English here as a first language, and although I can survive in Korean, I'm much more comfortable day to day in English." He said, "You guys have great potlucks," which made me feel good. And so I think intuitively what he's communicating to me at least is, and given the historical relationships between Japan and Korea, aside from all that, or despite all that, there's a certain comfort level that the members here subconsciously or consciously give off that makes people know that they're welcome here. So I think our future here is a very bright one as long as we don't try to model our future on what we've done in the past, that going forward from here, we will have to broaden our outlook a little bit more, which I think is already happening anyway. Now, that doesn't mean rejecting our historic Japanese identity, Japanese American identity, because I think, again, that's partly what attracts people to us, but it's honoring that but at the same time not using that identity to limit who we are, who we reach out to and, and what we do.

I really think the Japanese American culture as become a universal culture. I mean, I joke that here in L.A., half the Korean, half the sushi chefs are Korean and the other half are Mexican. And I don't think that's too far from the truth, but just the fact that when a Korean American comes to Little Tokyo and opens up a business, he opens up a sushi shop, calls it a sushi shop and doesn't, instead of a Korean barbeque place or something like that, that tells me that we, we definitely are in a new time to when we can be proud of our Japanese American heritage, honor that, claim it, own it, and most importantly use it to continue communicating our faith, probably in ways that we never were able to before. Now, I do think also that here in the twenty-first century and particularly here in Los Angeles we do have several things going for us in the larger scheme of things that work in our favor, number one, because of cultural diversity now, we live in a time where it's fashionable to claim your ethnicity. Most Sanseis and Niseis grew up at a time when it wasn't a positive thing to say you're Japanese or Japanese American, but nowadays people, ethnic minorities and particularly recent immigrant groups are, are able to live in a climate where they can claim their ethnic heritage and their country of origin in ways that I never was able to when I was a kid growing up. Another thing I think we have going in our favor is that religiously, and spiritually, because of racial and ethnic diversity and plurality in America and again, particularly here in Los Angeles, the average person nowadays lives in a world where multiple faith traditions are reality, that it's no longer just being Catholic or Protestant, or Christian or non Christian. We live in an environment where the presence of so many different religions is just a fact of life. And again, for us as Japanese American Christians, again, that allows us to expand the pool a little bit because it opens the door for interreligious dialogue and it allows us to explore other parts of our Japanese heritage that we may have never felt comfortable doing before, and I'm speaking primarily of our Shinto and Buddhist spiritual groups. Somewhere down the family tree, every Japanese American has Buddhist and Shinto spiritual roots, and while, while surely Isseis and Niseis and to a large extent Sanseis were never free to explore those roots, let alone honor them or acknowledge them, I really believe that the diverse religious climate that we live in nowadays fosters that and gives us the opportunity to do so, and it's an exciting opportunity for us as well.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.