<Begin Segment 8>

TI: I'm just trying to get a sense because in Seattle, again we hear so much that he was in some ways -- I've heard vets in Seattle call him a soldier's soldier, that the other guys looked up to him. And I'm trying to understand what characteristics he had that, the four of you saw, that made him sort of like that?

FM: That's the kind of leader he is. He liked to take charge and lead the troops forward, always moving forward. And he's always saying, "Come on, guys let's go." So we right behind him, just pushing up ahead.

TI: Yeah, Fred, you talked about how sometimes you had to hold him back. You said --

FM: Yeah, but he wants to move too fast, he's --

ME: Move too fast because you'd get ahead of the other platoons sometimes.

FM: Yeah, sometimes we had to sort of ease back little bit, so everybody stay in a formation like and move up together. Yeah. He wants to get it over with real quick, get out of there and chase the Germans off the hill, whatever we're attacking. And then relax a little bit.

TI: Now, during basic training could you tell that he was going to be this kind of fighter already, or is this something that just happens on the battle front?

FM: Oh, yeah, it happens on the battle front. In basic training he was a good soldier, no doubt about that. But he was on the quiet side more or less. He didn't, well, he wasn't real aggressive or anything. Whatever came out, whatever duties you are asked to perform, he did, do it real well. But then when we got up front, that's when he's, he really came into the -- what do you call? -- everybody knows he's there. Maybe, I don't know, he had something on his mind or whatever, but...

KO: One reason I think he's termed as soldier's soldier because before he asked anybody to, on a mission, if it's too dangerous for that boy, he himself would go. The fact that he's he always thought of his men first before he made any assignments.

TI: Was that pretty common in the 442? I talked to other sort of sergeants, and --

KO: They are many.

TI: That there was a real concern for the men all the way through.

HY: I know one time he felt really bad. He sent one of his, one of his men on patrol, I think, one of his best friends, Hayashi, Tadao Hayashi from Salinas, yeah? (It was very sad because Hayashi was killed in action during that patrol.)

ME: Right.

FM: Yeah. What happened was that we were more or less in a area where there wasn't too much action going on at that time. So Kubota told me to go, go down and take couple of days off. So I went down the hill to a rest area. And I was having a dinner. And I see Kash walking down. Say, "Hey, Kash, what you doing?" Say, "Kubota told me to get down because I take a few days off." Join me down in the rest area and relax a little bit. Then all of a sudden, I guess, there's some activity going on. So Kubota was gonna take a patrol out. But Hayashi volunteered to go with Kubota, and he got shot. I understand that a sniper got him. And when Kash heard about it, he just took off back up in the front lines to look for Hayashi. But they couldn't find him for a couple of days.

HY: Yeah, he felt real bad.

HY: Yeah.

KO: And I, I think that had motivated Shiro, too, in combat, the death of Hayashi.

FM: Yeah, because in the original first squad, Hayashi is the only one that we lost from our original guys that we started out from basic training because we had some replacement that come in later on, and we lost some of them. But the original first squad, we were very fortunate we just lost one.

TI: You know something that -- and this may be hard -- I'm thinking both Fred and Kash were thrown into the stockade after the "Lost Battalion." Did the other platoons know what happened? Did you guys ever see what happened to Kash and Fred? Want to talk about that?

KO: Well, I, I was with the Headquarters Platoon group. And I was given the responsibility of distributing cigarettes and candies and all that. So I think that by the second day of the stockade, I visited Fred and the gang over there, and took some things over. And they were really in the stockade, fenced in. And I think word spread that what happened, so -- but the unfortunate thing about his record being smeared by this thing. And many people didn't know, you see. But I'm glad everything's cleared up.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 1998 Densho. All Rights Reserved.