<Begin Segment 20>

TI: So changing, kind of, maybe, subjects, in your, in the several years you were negotiating with the Japanese Canadian community, kind of in hindsight, could they have, could they have done things differently that would have improved how the negotiations would have gone for them? Is there anything that, any thoughts about that? Being on the other side of the table, I'm just curious what your thoughts were.

OK: I think they, overall, they did a very good job. Did they make some tactical blunders? Yes. They, on occasion, went public when it was not to their advantage to do it. You know, you don't ever, in my estimation, push a government into a corner, embarrass a minister. It just doesn't bode well for you. And a couple of times where they, after unsatisfactory discussions, they went public and denounced the government. Well, all that did was get people's backs up. That people who were basically supportive, in the end, didn't hurt them that badly. But I think they... I've always operated on the philosophy that you get more with honey than you do with vinegar. And Art Miki certainly was the one who bought into that philosophy. He was always the person who wanted to be the conciliator, who wanted to understand where the government might be coming from on particular issues. Which isn't to say that he didn't firmly believe in the position of the NAJC, he did. But in contrast, Roy was far more combative. His... and I can remember sitting in meetings where people like Art and Roger Obata and others would say, "Settle down, Roy." Even when we were discussing the individual cases of residents of Japan, a couple of times he threw, got up and stomped and threw papers on the table because I wouldn't agree to compensating a particular individual. Well, that didn't score him any points. I essentially had veto power. If I said, "No," it wasn't going to happen, and he was better off persuading me rather than getting angry. But all in all, I think Roy played a critical role in that he held the NAJC's feet to the fire when there were people in the community who were willing to accept a lot less than eventually was done.

RD: There's a woman who was associated with the Canadian committee, I'm trying to think of her name. I heard her speak.

OK: Oh... from Montreal, I think. See if I might have the name anywhere here. [Looks through papers]

RD: Because there was certainly a good deal of back and forth correspondence and visits and meetings between Canadian and American redress committees. I can't give you chapter and verse, but I know this to be true. And I think the American successes invigorated the Canadians somewhat.

OK: Oh, I don't think there's any question about that.

RD: And one big difference, because of the differences in procedure, was that the Japanese Canadian community never had the experience of redress hearings, which were, I think, very important for many members of that generation.

TI: In terms of just within the community, selling, or getting them comfortable with...

RD: Yeah, and changing their life. I was at a meeting, one of the fiftieth anniversary meetings for people who had, this was at a little college in Missouri called Park College, one of the first to take... little bible school that had been one of the first to take students out of the camps. And they had a Nisei weekend for the fiftieth anniversary, and paid the way of the people back for this thing, and I came down to give a talk. And she gave a little talk and it was wonderful. She said, "You know," she said, "they had trouble here," but she never said a word to anybody about anything. Somebody got her to go to a redress hearing, and then she says, which had just been a few years before, says, "Then I started talking, and I haven't shut my mouth since." [Laughs] And it turned out she was --

OK: It wasn't Cassandra Kobayashi, was it?

RD: In Canada, yes.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.