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RD: What were the kinds of issues that would involve compensate or non-compensate? What were the parameters?

OK: Basically, under the agreement, anybody who was sent back to Japan or who went back voluntarily could be compensated with some restrictions. Basically anybody who went back and served in the Japanese armed forces was not going to be eligible for compensation. There's nothing in the agreement about that, but that was the mandate from the government.

RD: Even if they were drafted.

OK: Even if they were drafted. That the government's mandate was we could not politically accept giving compensation to somebody who had served as an enemy combatant essentially, to Canada, 'cause Canada was at war with Japan. Roy's position, and to a significant degree Paul Kariya's position was, "Hey look, some of these people didn't voluntarily join the Japanese armed forces, they were conscripted, and so they should be eligible for compensation." And we, that's where the debate and the discussion took place. What was their involvement, how heavily were they involved, did they actively engage, in any way, Canadians' armed forces? If they did, absolutely no compensation. Not even going to be discussed. As it turned out, in the end, very, very few people were denied compensation in Japan. Most people in Japan who were eligible under the agreement were compensated. And that is not something that has been well-publicized, it's not well-known in Canada. In fact, I suspect ninety-nine point nine percent, if not higher, of Canadians have no idea whatsoever that we compensated anybody in Japan.

And the... you know, in the end, I mean, I think that what happened in terms of compensation was just. As I said to Roger in earlier discussions that we've had, it would not have happened in Canada in my judgment had it not happened in the United States. That had what Ron Doering and some members of parliament were saying was the true state of Reagan and the Republican party's position, in fact, been true, then I can guarantee you there would have been no individual compensation in Canada, none whatsoever. I mean, once Reagan did what he did, the feet were absolutely cut from under the opponents in Canada. They had no leg to stand on whatsoever because you could not make a distinction of any significant importance between what happened in the United States to Japanese Americans and what happened to Japanese Canadians. In fact, I would argue that what happened to Japanese Canadians was more horrific than what happened to Japanese Americans. That the confiscation of property, the attempt to keep them off the West Coast, the deprivations visited upon Japanese Canadians in the camps was harsher. In all ways, our treatment --

RD: I agree with all of those things, but there's one, one thing Canada didn't do. They didn't kill anybody.

OK: No. Well, we didn't kill anybody intentionally. I think that some people died in the camps that --

RD: No, but I mean --

OK: Intentional killing, I agree with you.

RD: Well, I mean shot.

OK: Shot, no.

RD: And people... for instance, a case I looked into very thoroughly, soldier who shot somebody apparently for fun, was fined a dollar and given a carton of cigarettes.

OK: No, fortunately nothing like that happened in Canada, but other than that incident, or those kinds of incidents, I mean, our treatment, I think, was far harsher. I think the hysteria in Canada --

RD: The other, the other thing, Canada would make no, made no provision to pay for education, no less encourage thousands of people to leave camp and start in colleges. About four thousand Nisei got out of camps and went into colleges. Not on the West Coast.

OK: Yeah, nothing like that happened. In fact, when I think back now on how the children of the Nisei, the Issei, how they, how successful most of them had been in Canada, it's really remarkable. One of my closest associates in Edmonton, friend in Edmonton is a very, very successful plastic surgeon, Henry Shimizu. I mean, he was interned, he came out, the man is absolutely remarkable in that he doesn't have one ounce of animosity in him towards Canadian society, and I've always found that remarkable. I've always said, "How can you not have some measure of bitterness for what you suffered, what your family suffered?" And his response has always been, "Look at what I've got. In spite of what they did to me and to us, I have been able to succeed in this country." But that was all because of him. It wasn't because of any opportunities or advantages that were granted to him by governments. And the number of Henry Shimizus, I mean, the Art Mikis, the Roy Mikis, the Roger Obatas, all of those guys have done remarkably well, and I think... I'm thankful for that. I'm thankful that they have been able to overcome what was visited upon them. I think that... I hope someday some historians in Canada will write a more accurate history of what took place than what has been written to date. I think that what... and I'm, let me quickly correct by saying, correct that by saying from the perspective of who benefitted in Vancouver and British Columbia from the internment. That story hasn't been told. I mean, it's been either deliberately or whatever, submerged. But there are some families in Vancouver who really don't want that story told.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.