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MN: Now, when your mother moved to Okinawa, do you know if she got teased for being a Amerikajin?

AT: I don't think so. She has never complained about that. Rather, I think they kind of thought, "Oh, you're from America," or, "You're from Hawaii." That wasn't America. Hawaii was Hawaii at that time, "You're from Hawaii." [Laughs] And so more of, envious, I think, rather than being teased.

MN: And how much schooling did your mother receive in Okinawa?

AT: She went through all the, from elementary through high school. And she went to college in Tokyo, but it was junior college, Jissen, Jissen University, it's well-known, Jissen University. But I believe she went to the junior, two-year college rather than four years. So her being educated as far as graduating high school, you know, if graduating high school was a big thing, most of education many of the girls got at that time, so immediately, yeah, after the war, she was able to teach. Yeah.

MN: So your, the Oshiro side in Okinawa, would, could we say they're upper-class?

AT: Maybe in their village, but not really upper class. But because when they lived in Naha, Shuri, because my grandfather was teaching at that time, that... and I guess my mother was well enough to pass tests to enter good schools. So I think those were looked at as more fortunate family, but not really upper-class. But, yeah, they didn't have to do farming to support themselves.

MN: Your, either your Yabiku grandmother or your Oshiro grandmother, did they have tattoos on their hands?

AT: They... they, my Oshiro grandmother might have had little faded, but not very... but one sister immediately above her had a -- I don't know how many years difference in age -- but she did have that more noticeable than the other ones. So I think, I think Hawaii grandmother might have been, might have been a little young to be tattooed.

MN: Can you share with us why Okinawa women tattooed their hands?

AT: That was to show that they were married, and so that's because when Satsuma invaded Okinawa, they took many women, from what I hear. So to hide from that, I understand, they were trying to tattoo themselves to appear more ugly. And my mother said it's like a Japanese, that ohaguro, where they color teeth, it was similar. But again, I know there's elaborate tattoo these older women had, could be some symbol of a priestess, they might have had more elaborate and very distinguished dark color. And I never figure out if there was any, or found out if there was any significance in design. I know they had different designs. Some had it all on knuckle, some only had it here, up to here like this. So... but again, that went away from, after Meiji era, too, so anybody that would be having those would be born in Meiji, before... with the Meiji Restoration. So yeah, has to be earlier Meiji. Like my grandparents were born in Meiji era. But anybody that was born in Taisho, that era, wouldn't have any of those.

MN: Meiji would be 1876, the Meiji Restoration?

AT: Restoration, yeah.

MN: I think that's when also Okinawa could no longer, Okinawans could no longer speak Uchinaguchi?

AT: Apparently that was kind of enforced. That I didn't know, but I only remember after the war that we were enforced. But that was only in, like, school, that they were trying to teach Japanese. So, "You should be able to speak proper Japanese." But outside, everybody spoke Okinawan, Uchinaguchi.

MN: Now, you had mentioned your Oshiro grandfather decided to attend a Tokyo university?

AT: Uh-huh.

MN: Now, how common was it for a Okinawan at that time to go to this university-level education on Honshu?

AT: Very, very rare, especially my grandfather's time. Maybe they probably knew each other was there, but very few. First of all it was expensive to send somebody, and secondly, you have to be educated to that level to be able to attend university. So I believe it was very few people that actually went to Honshu, mainland Japan, to school.

MN: So your Oshiro grandfather must have been highly respected to be able to do this.

AT: I believe so, I guess so, yes. And very determined to do that. [Laughs] Like I said, he was working before he entered, so I'm sure, I guess that's where financial support that he was able to, to...

MN: Now, you mentioned that it was very rare for somebody from Okinawa to go to Tokyo. Had your mother ever talked about, or your grandmother, grandparents talk about being discriminated in Tokyo?

AT: No, no. That I have never heard. They talked about having a helper at home, or maid helping or that, or they entertained, invited friends, I guess. So I have never heard of any of our family being discriminated from Japanese.

MN: Would you say is it because they were in the academic circles and maybe they were more open?

AT: I think so. I think so. Because, yeah, even... well, and then also, they were there for some purpose, that I know a lot of complaint that people go there to work, the companies, they hire, they say they don't, they lack stability because they get homesick, and a year later, they cannot stay and they leave. So those were the complaints that I've heard. But if you had a specific goal, determination to complete, so I think, yeah. And of course my grandfather was going to school, but he was with the family, too. So I think that was more a plus on his side. [Laughs]

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.