<Begin Segment 16>

JG: So I am, we're kind of at a point in our interview where I have... it's amazing. You have, you've done so much in your life. We have so much to talk about still. But I've covered, before going on to any new areas, I think this is probably a good place to stop for now, and I just wanted to know if there's anything, at least in this first part of your life that we've talked about, up through seminary, that you wanted to talk about that we haven't covered so far?

MN: There, there probably is. There are a lot of episodes, other experiences that I could point to that would kind of fill in some of the gaps. One thing I haven't touched on too much but which I think is another influence of my development during that time... I may have said it in, in maybe an indirect way, but another influence I would have to say, with respect to the Crenshaw area where I grew up, was that it was a very... I mean, whether you went to the Methodist church or another Christian church or the Buddhist temple or whatever, or whether your parents were Niseis or, or from Japan or whatever, the Crenshaw area in itself was a very stable community. And I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that there was a solid black middle class, and I've thought a lot about that recently. Well, number one, being back here in L.A. now for a number of years, but when I see what's happened, the transformation that's taking place in South Central -- well, now we call it South L.A., but when I was growing up it was South Central L.A. I mean, the geography hasn't moved at all, but the labels have changed. But even thinking back to the '92 riots, Rodney King, and what the whole city as a whole is going through, the transformation, particularly with the influx of immigrants over the last twenty, thirty years, particularly Latino immigrants. When I think about what's going on now here in L.A. and juxtapose that with what my peers and I experienced during our time, the Crenshaw area really was a stable, solid community with a very strong black middle class, and I have to say also that the other Japanese Americans and others who lived, were able to live pretty comfortable within parameters, lifestyles. Even my dad, who was a dock worker down on the loading docks for forty years, was able to support a wife and three kids just on his paycheck, 'cause my mom really didn't have full, start full time employment until I was in high school and maybe college. But to think that a guy like my dad working a forty hour a week union job could support his family of five on one paycheck, I mean, that's unthinkable now.

And so, again, when I think about those times, what I have not said specifically, but what I think undergirds everything I've said, and maybe I've said it in another way, besides the fact that it was an exciting time growing up down there in the Crenshaw area, it was also a very, very stable and solid environment and community, because it was a middle class community. I think, in part, because of just the economics of the time. Nowadays the black middle class, as we call it, while there're still remnants of it in urban areas, as a whole, the black middle class has fanned out beyond just the urban core, as have Japanese Americans. I mean, the Japanese American exodus, as I call it, started back in the '70s when, down here, families, Japanese American families started moving to the suburbs, places like the San Fernando Valley, the beach areas, the coastal beaches, areas. That also started to happen. And when I think again about what's happening today, a lot of turmoil. Not necessarily racial or ethnic turmoil. I mean, that, I think, is what people see and what the media likes to portray, but I really think it has more to do with the socio-economic realities of the time that are reflected in racial-ethnic realities. But again, it's just the solid community that Crenshaw was at that time that I think really undergirded and made possible a lot of the things that I remember and reflect on.

JG: Interesting. Very interesting. Well, thank you very much. This is... and again, you're not off the hook for doing another interview. This is just, thank you for this first interview. Appreciate it.

MN: [Laughs] You're welcome, Jim. Thank you.

JG: Thanks.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.