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JG: Did you have, thinking about transitioning into this new role, did you look at or... I guess the question I'm trying to ask is what kind of model had been provided to you through clergy you knew growing up? I mean, did, was there, to what extent did that influence either the decision of becoming a minister or how you modeled your own kind of ministry afterward?

MN: That's a very good question, Jim, and let me start by looking at the current scene and then working backwards. When I look out on the current landscape in the Japanese American religious community, primarily mainline Protestant and the Jodo Shinshu Buddhist temples, most of the clergy are, like me, baby boomers, and most of us, at least from the standpoint of time period, came out of college and whether we did our seminary work in the Christian tradition or in the Buddhist tradition, went through that, came out of the civil rights, '70s era, '60s, '70s era, and went into our seminary experience during the late '70s, early '80s, which was, again, still a very active, exciting time in terms of civil rights and other movements that were happening. And so my hunch is that so many of the Japanese American clergy, primarily Sanseis, whether they're in the Christian tradition, Buddhist, or Shinto, whatever, all are motivated on one level at least by our social consciousnesses that were formed during the '60s and '70s. And regardless of faith tradition, that has to be, in my mind at least, a compelling factor for why we all are in the vocations that we are in. Okay, so I think I want to say that in terms of a broad brush approach.

In terms of my specific experience, and for others my age, there were, there was a first wave, I'll call it, of Sanseis within the United Methodist Church that went into the ministry and who kinda blazed the trail for us. They, however, were encouraged by some very, very dedicated Nisei clergy who, in their own ways, paved the way for them. Some of these Nisei clergy, actually many of them are still alive today, and when I look back on it, they were really mavericks in their time for entering that, that vocation. Although, one of the realities for the Nisei generation is it was really public education, government and the church in which Niseis could find employment right after the interment camps, which is one of the reasons why I think you have a lot of Niseis who went into teaching. You have a lot of Niseis who went into government service, and you have a good number of Niseis across all, at least mainline Protestant denominations, who went into the ministry. So there's a practical aspect of, of how we were able to have a lot of Nisei ministers in the United Methodist Church, but across most of the mainline Protestant denominations. But it was that generation that really influenced us. When I think about it, among all the current Sansei United Methodist clergy that I know of, there is only a handful, and even then a small handful, whose parents were clergy, so that means it was someone else who encouraged us to go into this line of work.

JG: Was there anyone in particular that you think of, looking back, that kind of influenced your own, again, either decision to become a minister or the, someone you modeled your ministry after?

MN: Sure. First of all, I have to preface everything I say by making a comment that parallels what I said earlier about listening to Muhammad Ali on Wide World of Sports as being one of the ways I learned how to speak publicly, because one of my role models, growing up during the '60s, was Martin Luther King, but even after King, Jesse Jackson. And I remember, in the same way that I always took opportunities to watch Muhammad Ali on Wide World of Sports, I always took, took opportunities to watch Jesse Jackson and to listen to him, and Malcolm X, as well, during the '60s, whenever they would be on the news or debate or, or whatever. King, his great speeches of his era came when I was a little bit too young and precocious to, well, to listen to them, let along to really get the full force of them, but it was really the Jesse Jacksons, the Malcolm Xs and those that came immediately afterwards that really impacted me. And I have to also say that seeing the role that the church played in the African American community often impressed upon me the importance that the church did and could potentially play in the Japanese American community. Maybe not on as grand a scale or on a scale that was as noticeable to mainstream society, but which was nevertheless equally as important.

To answer your question about some clergy who have been influential to me, I kinda feel like a UCLA basketball coach, now late basketball coach, John Wooden, who never wanted to name his five top Bruin basketball players for fear he would always offend the other players that he had, but when I think about it, among the Nisei clergy, the Reverend Peter Chen, former pastor of this church, who probably spoke the best Japanese out of all the Nisei clergy. He was Taiwanese who was born and raised in Kobe, Japan. Peter Chen, Bishop Roy Sano, also who pastored here at Centenary years ago, when I was a kid, actually. Reverend Lloyd Wake, retired clergy up in San Francisco. Lloyd Wake really made his claim to fame at Glide Memorial United Methodist Church there in San Francisco, and really was one of the key figures during the whole Patty Hearst, SLA shootout with the FBI and the San Francisco police. Lloyd provided sanctuary there at Glide Church to Wendy Yoshimura, a Sansei woman who had gotten caught up with the SLA movement, so Lloyd is definitely one who I've tried to model in terms of my civil rights consciousness. Reverend Ed Iwamoto, retired clergy up in Seattle, Washington, who pastored here, actually grew up in West L.A. and was here at Centenary. Actually, he signed my bible when I was, I think, nine years old and I have it to this day. Reverend Mike Morizono, who is actually one of the first Niseis to enter into the ministry and actually entered into the ministry as what we today call a second career person. He was an engineer at first in San Jose and then chucked that career to go into the ministry. And I've always remember that, and again, for a Nisei man back in the '60s, to land a job as an engineer was really just so, not lucky, but just really plum. I mean, there really, really weren't any types of opportunities much better than that for a Nisei back in the late '50s, early '60s, but Reverend Morizono had that goin' for him, but he decided to chuck it all away and enter the ministry. And he's always served as a role model for me in that context. Among the Sanseis, again, there were a group of Sanseis that are a little bit older than myself who, who decided to enter into the seminary and then go on into the ordained ministry. Reverend Grant Hagiya, now Bishop Grant Hagiya who is now Bishop in the Pacific Northwest area, was one of the first ones. Following him out of this church, Centenary, was Reverend Gary Oba. Gary actually grew up with me here at Centenary and he's a product of the Crenshaw area. Reverend Bob Hoshibata, who's actually originally from Hawaii, Bob is now Bishop Robert Hoshibata up in the Portland area. So there are those three as well as a good number of other Sanseis who went into the ministry, again, earlier than I did, and who were really, not just role models, but catalysts for my generation, those of my peers, at least, who decided to go into the ministry. And I think what they did was they really, just by their actions, broke the mold of what a minister should look like and be like and think like and act like, not that they're all flaming radicals from the '60s, but simply because of the generation that they came out of just made them markedly different from the Nisei, and certainly of the Issei clergy.

JG: Interesting.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.