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TI: And tell me first about your father's family. What kind of work, or what did they do?

MK: My father's side, my father's parents were priests at the Buddhist church. They had their own church, and my father, after graduating from high school, was attending college to become a medical doctor, but somehow, I can't remember what unfortunate things happened, but my father had to drop out of college because of financial situation and my grandfather lost the church that they had owned in the family for many centuries. So my dad left whatever medical school he was in, and he went to, I think, Taisho University. Taisho University was the school that preliminary ministry students went to. Reason that he went to that school is because my grandfather had some influence in getting him there, and he could get education there. Also, my uncle who was ten years older than my father had already become a minister and was already in Hawaii. So the prospect was that, upon his graduation, there would be a church that he could probably go to, which was to come to Hawaii. That was somehow the planning when he had to drop out of medical school.

TI: But you said, so something happened so that your grandfather, that he lost his church?

MK: Yes.

TI: And you said this had been with the family, or the family had been with this church for centuries?

MK: Yes.

TI: So you have a long history.

MK: Have a long, yeah, they had a long tradition of having a Christian... because the church in Japan belongs to the families, not to congregation, but it belongs to the family, because these churches were granted to the families by the original shogun, especially in the Joudo mission -- I'm in Joudo mission, Joudoshuu -- so Joudoshuu churches were granted properties by the first shogun, so this is why they had all these churches, and it was like a possession that you never gave up.

TI: So do you know why your grandfather lost the church?

MK: There's some... he had incurred some debt to some loan sharks or something to that extent. And he extended beyond his capacity, and he had to give up and he had to sell the church to pay off his debt, but there was not enough there.

TI: And so what did your grandfather do after he lost the church?

MK: I have no... I think he went to work for some other church.

TI: Okay. And even after that experience, he wanted your father to join the ministry, to become --

MK: Well, it wasn't his choice, but it was my uncle's choice to have my... being the oldest son, my uncle looked after my dad and said, "I guess the only place you really have is to come to Hawaii, and I can get you appointment into Hawaii."

TI: Okay, good. So your father drops out of medical school, transfers to...

MK: Ministry.

TI: Ministry. Finishes that and then is called over by his brother.

MK: Yes, before he graduated he was called over there. He had gotten an appointment for him.

TI: And about what year would this be?

MK: This all happened, I think, in 1932. Early part of 1932, I think June of '32, somewhere there about when he graduated from the ministry.

TI: This is interesting to me, because this is one of the very few cases of someone going from Japan to Hawaii after 1924, because 1924 was the Immigration Act, which essentially ended all immigration from Japan to the United States. So your father was able to come in 1932, can you tell me why he was able to do that?

MK: I think the United States and Japan had made some kind of agreement that they needed religious support, and people, most of the people who had churches were not willing to give up churches to come to Hawaii. Like if it's family owned, they need to keep their heirs to be... continuation, to continue the church, so the firstborns were never a candidate. Second born were usually intermarried to other churches that had no heirs and stuff like this. So then the number of ministers that was willing to come to Hawaii was maybe fourth or fifth, and by that time they never really wanted to become a minister, so this created a shortage of ministers in Hawaii. It was a problem where they had many churches built from the earlier people, early immigration people, but the churches were empty, emptying out in the thirties, so then the possibility of him becoming a minister and coming to Hawaii was available.

TI: Oh, so that makes sense. And that's why your brother knew this, and that's why he encouraged your father to enter the...

MK: Especially the Betsuin, who, which is located here at Makiki right now, the headquarters, were looking for ministers and we're still looking for ministers to this day to replace our... it's a never-ending process.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.