Densho Digital Archive - Kazue Murakami Tanimoto Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

TI: Okay, so today is Thursday, June 10, 2010, and we're at the Hilo Hawaiian. And we're doing an oral history and we're, in the room we have your sister, Mrs. Hagiwara, and we have two of your daughters here. We have Carol Ann Ikeda and Gweyn Eckart. And then on camera we have Dana Hoshide, and then I'm the interviewer, Tom Ikeda. So Mrs. Tanimoto, why don't we just start, and why don't you tell me when you were born.

KT: When I was born? I was born in Hilo, Hawaii, January 28, 1919. I think it was an apartment on Kilauea Avenue because I saw one photo that had me about two or three years old, I think, in that apartment. So I must have been born there.

TI: And so when you say "apartment," then you were delivered by a midwife?

KT: I'm quite sure that was it because the rest of the children up through my brother was midwife.

TI: Okay. So you were the firstborn child. So tell me who your father was. What was your father's name?

KT: My father's name, Murakami Minoru.

TI: And where in Japan, where was he from in Japan?

KT: Oh, actually, he was born in... I don't know if it's true, but Yamaguchi Iwakuni, and he lived in Hashirano with his auntie. He lived with them, and their name was Miyoshi. That was his mother's sister. He was raised by them.

TI: So why was he raised by his aunt and not his mother?

KT: Because his parents, his actual father died in Maui when he was twenty-four years old and he was just four years old, I'm quite sure. So after he died, Mother remarried Mr. Awaya, and Mr. Awaya decided to come to Hawaii. But this time she followed him and came to Hawaii. So she had to leave my father with her sister. That's why he was there. Miyoshi, I don't know, I forgot her name, but she was raised at Hashirano.

TI: Okay. So Murakami, where did that family name come from?

KT: Murakami, I'm quite sure they're from Hiroshima. If I'm not mistaken, Murakamis was from Hiroshima.

TI: But, so your --

KT: So actually, I think they moved from Hiroshima to Hashirano, Yamaguchi. That's what I think. I don't know, really, but reading the history, it seems the Murakami came from Hiroshima.

TI: And so your father was raised by an aunt.

KT: Yeah, his aunt Miyoshi.

TI: And then his father had died when he was twenty-four in Maui?

KT: No, the father was twenty-four. He was four years old.

TI: Right. So that was your grandfather...

KT: Yeah, that would be.

TI: And do you know how he died in Maui?

KT: Yeah, epidemic. They had, I think the whole, Kula, Maui, even the Hawaiians and all of them passed away. So actually, my father didn't know where he was. So I think after he became enough money to go to (Kula, Maui), to look for his grave, but he couldn't find. So I think they put it in the, one.

TI: Oh, like a mass grave.

KT: Yeah, mass grave. So he start there. And I found his photo taken there, so it must be that one. So he went to visit him until he had enough money to go to Maui, so that was quite...

TI: I see.

[Interruption]

TI: Okay. And then so your grandfather died, and so your grandmother remarried. You were four years old.

KT: Yeah.

TI: And she remarried. Was she in, where was she when she remarried?

KT: They were in Yamaguchi.

TI: Okay.

KT: And I guess in Hashirano, because the Awaya family had some kind of construction, and then... no, not the Awayas, my grandmother's side. And he was working at their place, so that's how they met, I guess.

TI: And so after she remarried, then what did she do?

KT: Then she came to Hawaii. And this time, she decided to go with the husband instead of the first husband.

TI: Okay, good. And then that's because, and then that's why you stayed with your aunt and you were raised.

Off-camera voice: Grandpa stayed, Minoru stayed with the aunt.

TI: Oh, that's right, that's right, yeah. Your father, that's right. And then he came at eighteen.

KT: Yes.

TI: And so part of the family history we covered with your sister's interview, so I won't do as much as I normally do.

<Begin Segment 2>

TI: So let's, let's go to Hilo, and you are the firstborn. And why don't you start telling me about growing up at Hilo. Because you were, you're about ninety-one years old.

KT: Yeah, I'm ninety-one now... [laughs].

TI: Because I'm really curious --

KT: I was born... I understand I was a very weak, weak child. It seems that every epidemic came around, I got it. So when I was growing up, of course we walked to school. I remember every assembly they had in the morning, I was the first one to fall down.

TI: What do you mean? Fall... you mean, so assemblies, people are standing up?

KT: Yeah, at school. I used to be the one that, first one to just go down. So after that, going to school, to Kapiolani school, I had to go to the office every morning and have one tablespoon of cod liver oil. That's how I was raised there, and I passed through that school. But seemed that every epidemic that came around, I got it. The last one was when I was twelve years old, I got the diphtheria. And my mother was so worried that I would be in the Pumaile, they would send me there. But I didn't... but somehow I got over that.

TI: And so when you were growing up, was your mother very careful with you?

KT: Yeah, my mother, I was always with my mother. Always behind her, always hanging on to her. [Laughs] Because I was so weak, she was worried about me, I think.

TI: And growing up, I'm guessing that you spoke Japanese with your mother?

KT: Yeah.

TI: So growing up, that's what you learned, Japanese?

KT: Yeah, more or less. I was more with her, so Japanese was communication with her. So I learned more Japanese.

TI: Yeah, so what was it like when you started school, I mean, English school? 'Cause then you had to learn English.

KT: Well, I had to learn, so... but I wasn't very good at that. [Laughs] But somehow I managed to go up through ninth grade and I graduate. And then my father asked me, at that time it was popular, children, parents sending children to Japan. Said, "You want to go Japan?" This is one of the things that I don't know why, when he asked me that, I said, "Sure." That is one thing, I don't know why I said, "Sure, I'll go." And I was only fifteen.

TI: At this point, were you much healthier, though? You weren't as sickly, you were stronger?

KT: I was a little stronger at that time. I guess with all the medication and everything else, must have been, made me stronger. And maybe I wanted to get away, I don't know. But when he asked me, he said, "Sure." And I didn't know about the financial or anything, I just said, "Sure, I'll go."

TI: And because, were you, when he asked you, you said sure, or yes. Was it because you, did you want to go or were you afraid?

KT: No. I didn't know if I wanted to go or what. This is the thing that I don't know why I say that. [Laughs] But somehow I managed.

TI: Now, when you were fifteen, how good was your Japanese?

KT: Well, at least I can get by. But our Japanese was more Hawaiian Japanese. It was a sort of a slang in Japan. But somehow, I managed.

TI: Now, when your father asked you, did you talk to your mother, ask her about this?

KT: No, I didn't talk to her. I didn't say anything, I just talked to my father and he said yes. And that was it, and I don't remember what I did after that.

TI: So talk to me, as the oldest child, what was your relationship like with your, first your father?

KT: Oh, I guess we were all right, I don't know. [Laughs]

TI: So the two of you --

KT: We talked, we talked, yeah. We talked. Because I can speak Japanese, so from that time on, I was more Japanese than English.

TI: And how about your mother? How close were you with your mother?

KT: Oh, yes, she was very close to me. Because I was weak, she really took care of me. She did everything, some kind of medicine, made it into syrup like and make me drink. She did lots. She did a lot for me.

TI: So when your, so when you decided to go to Japan, was she sad to see you go?

KT: I think so.

TI: Why do you think that? How could you tell that she was sad?

KT: Well, that, that I don't know, because I don't know why I chose that path.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: So when you decided to go to Japan, how did you, what did you have to do to get ready to go to Japan?

KT: Everything was done for me and then arrangement done to Japan, to my father. He did all that, so all I had to do was go to Japan. But we took, we went to the Hilo harbor and rode the Hualala's line. I was sick right through, reached Honolulu, was met by my mother's auntie, and we stayed there until I was to leave Japan. And they bought me clothes, everything, because we didn't have money. They did everything for us. I was dressed in their style with hat and everything.

TI: So describe the clothes that you, you bought. So when you went to, from Hilo to Honolulu, what kind of clothes were you wearing?

KT: Gee, I don't... they had the photo, I had the photo of that, plain clothes...

TI: Very simple, plain?

KT: Yeah. Simple clothes that we could afford, the best from my parents. But when we went Honolulu, they bought some of everything. The shoes and everything.

TI: So these were more fancy...

KT: Yeah.

TI: But Western-style hat.

KT: Western-style. With a hat.

Off-camera voice: A straw hat. The collar had the... the wide one that kind of overlaps. Big belt and big buttons. That style.

KT: I think that was the style at that time, I think.

TI: And when, and when they were buying these clothes, you're fifteen, how did you feel about these clothes? Did you like them?

KT: I don't know what I did. [Laughs] Somehow I must have followed my cousins. They did all... they were older than me.

TI: Okay, so before we talk about the trip, when you had to say goodbye to your mother, father, the rest of the family in Hilo, describe that. What was that like?

KT: It was at the pier. All the neighbor children and my family was there, and with my father, we took a photo. My father took a photo. That, I don't know why, because I don't know why I say I want to go Japan. So that, after that, it's all on my own now. That much I knew, I was all on my own at fifteen.

TI: So that must have been a hard...

KT: Something, yeah.

TI: ...and difficult, because this was your first time.

KT: Yeah. Hard to think that I'm going to leave all alone. Didn't think much about it, but we had a, my father found a friend that I can share the ride with.

TI: And was this the first time you had left Hilo?

KT: Uh-huh. The first time I ever rode a boat, the first time in my whole life. And so I didn't know what to expect, but I just took it. I just took it. My decision was to go Japan, so I had to.

TI: And so you said you were sick all the way from Hilo to Honolulu.

KT: Yeah. In the boat I was sick right through anyway. And I was greeted by my mother's auntie's family, and they took care of us until I leave for Japan.

TI: When you were in Honolulu, did you get homesick? Did you at some point...

KT: No, nothing. Not that much because my mother was with me.

TI: Oh, your mother went to Honolulu?

KT: I think, yeah, I think she went with me.

TI: And then, but then from Honolulu...

KT: Yeah, Honolulu she went with me, with my younger brother. She took, because he was only six years old, so he had to take him, that's Katsusuke. He and Mother and we went together. So she left. She saw me off.

TI: So that was when you really had to say goodbye to your mother.

KT: Yeah.

TI: What was it like at that point?

KT: Because I don't know why, that's why. I think even I was fifteen, I knew what I was heading for. So I didn't say much.

TI: Do you remember how your mother was when she said goodbye?

KT: No.

TI: Because it must have been hard for her because she had to take care of you maybe extra because of your health.

KT: Yeah. It must have been hard for her because after I left Japan, I stayed there for six years, and my intention was to stay there. She wrote to me, "You come back." That's why I came back.

TI: So she missed you.

KT: Yeah, because I liked Japan. The life in Japan was something different, and I liked it.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: Okay, so let's talk, let's talk about the trip now from Honolulu to Japan.

KT: Oh, the Honolulu to Japan, I rode Asama-maru, I think. Yeah, Asama-maru. It was August 1934, and it was a ten-day trip on the Pacific to Japan. I was sick for three days on the boat. And my father, I don't know why, but he told me, "When you ride the boat, don't forget to tip the man that takes care of the room. Don't forget to tip them, he'll take care of you." So that's what I did. I gave the tip, and that man took care of me for the three days.

TI: Oh, so when you were sick, he would bring food to you...

KT: Yeah. When I couldn't move or anything, he took care of me. That was my father's idea. So I got, I got my treatment, and I was okay. And after that, I stayed up and stayed out in the deck, watched the ocean. And that was the first time I ever saw a whale shooting the water. I was amazed with that. That's the first time I saw a whale in the Pacific, middle of the Pacific Ocean. And the rest was just going to, until you reach Japan. And I reached Japan August 16th, that I remember, and I was, I wonder who's gonna come pick me up, 'cause I don't know nobody, and this is a strange country even though it's my parents' country. I just wondered. I just debarked. When I came down the street, there was a man holding my photo, I think, and was looking for me. And that was my uncle-in-law in Tokyo. So he met me, and then we went to Yokohama. I think it was Matsuzakaya Hotel.

TI: Yeah, and before we, we talk about all those things, what were just your impressions of Japan? When you first got off the boat and you're looking around, what did you think?

KT: Because I didn't know anyone, and I didn't know who was gonna pick me up, I just looked at that place, it was a harbor, Yokohama harbor. And going down the steps, I saw a man right in front of me, and that was the uncle holding a picture.

TI: With a picture. So you must have felt...

KT: Oh, what a relief, somebody is there. And he, we went to the hotel, Matsuzakaya Hotel, and my father knew the manager of that hotel, so he made all the arrangement for me.

TI: Now, how would your father know these people in Japan?

KT: I don't know how he does it, but my father was a man that, when the boat came to Hawaii, like the navy boat or all the training ship, he was the one that met them. And through that, he must have known who and who and all that.

TI: So when these ships came, he would make friends with them.

KT: Yeah, yeah. And then he went to Japan before I came to Japan, because he brought three girls to the school that I was supposed to, I was going. So he knew the manager of Matsuzakaya. That's, I think that's the way it must have been. Because it was two years before I went, he had the three girls. I met them after that. So that's how he must have met the manager.

TI: Oh, that's interesting. So in some ways, maybe two years before, he was doing this and --

KT: He had already made some kind of plan in his head that he's going to send me. He had that in mind already. So when he asked me, when I said yes, he was very happy, I'm quite sure. I'm don't know. That feeling, I don't know, but that's what I think. But when I went there, his name was (Kato), I think. I forgot. I cannot remember. But he approached me. He didn't handle everything for me. But after my uncle took me there, he stayed, wait until everything was okay with my arriving and all that. He took me to Tsurumi dormitory. I didn't sleep at the hotel, I went straight to the dormitory. I think that was the arrangement, that I don't know, was at the Tsurumi dormitory. And he dropped me there, and he took, he went home, and he said, "When you have a day off," he'll come pick me up and take to his house.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: So I'm curious, you talked about earlier, in Honolulu, you bought all these brand-new clothes. And so I'm guessing you wore that off the boat, the ship. Were you dressed like everyone else?

KT: Yeah, yeah. Same thing that we were dressed, the way I was.

TI: Oh, okay, so you didn't stand out.

KT: No, I didn't change.

TI: How about from the Japanese? Did you stand out in what you wore?

KT: Well, at least I could explain myself and all that, so I, somehow I managed. [Laughs]

TI: Well, so I'm curious, so how did the Japanese kind of think about you? When they met you, what did they think? Because you're not from Japan, you're from Hilo, and your language is probably a little bit different, and your clothes are a little bit different, I'm curious what they thought of you.

KT: Because it was a hotel, there were lots of people that come from islands and mainland. So I don't think they had any good special feeling the way I was dressed or anything. Because he already knew I was coming.

TI: But how about the dormitory, when you went to the dormitory?

KT: Dormitory, because Tsurumi dormitory was all from Hawaii.

TI: I see.

KT: From Maui or Molokai, Kauai and Hawaii. Five islands, nothing but island girls was there.

TI: How big was this dormitory? Like how many girls...

KT: Well, it's quite big, you know. Because the first floor was, had about five, five rooms, and this side had about a couple of rooms, and upstairs had two rooms. So, and then the dormitory meeting and the kitchen was in the separate room, separate place, so it was quite big. And they had, gee, how many of us? At least twenty, twenty girls was there from, all from the islands. So it was easy for me, plus, the girl that I was supposed to room, my father had took her there previously. So I was supposed to meet her, so I knew what was going on. And she knew what was going on, too, so she greeted me and we stayed together. That's how, that's how I was greeted, so, and the rest is all Hawaii. You know, Hawaii girls are easy.

TI: And so after you were at the dormitory and your uncle...

KT: He left. He left me, and I met all of them. And I met the matron, and she assigned me to where I'm supposed to go, and everything was done that way. But the sad thing was my roommate died not too long after I moved with her. I have the article.

TI: And what happened? How did she die?

KT: I don't know what kind of sickness she had, but she died. It was very sad. And it was about, about a year, I think. So we were... after breakfast, we always pray and recite the sutra. So when she died, we all went to her funeral. And we went to the crematory, and all the Hawaii girls recited the sutra and then sent her away. She was cremated, we pick up the bones and everything, we did everything and then notify the family in Hawaii that she passed away. We did that all in Japanese, now.

TI: You had been there about a year?

KT: Only year and a half, and yet, we could recite it. So it's amazing how the every morning sutra praying did affect us. It came through, and we did it. So the people was very surprised at that. All Hawaii girls, and they can do that.

TI: And the whole ceremony with bones...

KT: Everything we did. We stayed until all, until we pick up the bone. That's the first time I ever did go, do that kind of stuff. And that was only year after I went to Japan.

TI: And it must have been difficult, too, because you were close with this girl.

KT: Yeah, I was, and she was the one that was leading me to do this and that and all that.

TI: It was almost like an older sister for you.

KT: Yeah, just like an older... she was older than me, anyway. And I inherit all her things, so I could continue to go to school, the clothes and all that. Although I had...

TI: Did you ever write to her family or anything?

KT: No. We didn't know, we didn't know the address or anything, I just notified my father and he did the rest. Because he took, I think he must have done the rest of it.

TI: Were there concerns -- she died of some illness -- that this illness might have been contagious or anything? Was there some concerns about you?

KT: I don't... I think she had tuberculosis. I think that was it. But that was sad because she was so nice and she taught me so much. That came back to me lately, and I was looking through, because of our appointment, and I saw the article about her. I must have kept it.

TI: Thank you for sharing that.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: You said earlier that you were there for six years.

KT: Six years.

TI: And you didn't want to come back. What is it about Japan that... during this time, that you really liked?

KT: Because we were from Hawaii, and our Japanese was not the standard Tokyo, when I went to school, actually the high school that I went to, the girls laughed at me because my Japanese was mixed slang. So I thought, "Oh, well, I'm going to shut up." [Laughs] I'm not going to talk, I'm going to listen to what they're saying to learn their Japanese. So, okay, that's what I did. I didn't talk to them. But when they offered me to go to their house, I went, to see how they operate and how they talk. That's how I pick up my Japanese. I pick it up faster. And I stayed in the dorm yet, so I told my father, "If I stay in this dorm, I will not learn Japanese." Because when we come back, we all talk English. We communicate in English, so we don't talk Japanese, so we won't learn. So I told my father, "I won't learn Japanese. If you want me to, you sent me here for that purpose." So he said, "Okay." That's how I moved in to this, the manager of the Yokohama Matsuzakaya Hotel, his family. And I stayed with them for three years, and I graduated from Tsurumi from there, from that house. That's how I learned the Japanese and how they operate. It's a regular family. It's not a high-class family, it's a middle-class family. Because Japan has high, middle and low. They have that distinctly, you can tell. And I found that out.

TI: So you learned a lot more by living with a family.

KT: Oh, I learned a lot more how they operate, what they do, and what kind of food they feed, all that. That's how I learned how. And they wanted to learn English from me, so we communicate that way. And I teach them English, and in return, in Japanese. The family was very nice, very, very nice family.

TI: So besides helping them with their English, did you have to do other chores or other work?

KT: They didn't let me do anything, just study to help me in Japanese, and play. I played with them, too. I play a lot, too, you know.

TI: Now, did your father, for this arrangement, did he pay the family?

KT: I think he did. All of that financial, I didn't know anything. Because at the school, the (treasurer of the school) took care of the money, and I had to go every month to have my okozukai, you know, the spending money.

TI: Allowance.

KT: Because he had done everything, he paid for all, everything. So when I moved, evidently the man must have thought that, because I always had my spending money.

TI: And did you have about the same amount of spending money as everyone else?

KT: Yeah.

TI: So it was comparable. And what would you --

KT: But, you know, at that time, everything was very cheap. We, nickel, you can get so many things, you know, so you don't need much. That's how I manage how to spend the money and save enough. So it was a very good lesson for me because I'm alone. I cannot depend on anybody. I have to do it myself.

TI: So I'm curious, what did you buy with your spending money? What would be some examples...

KT: Oh, mostly to eat. [Laughs]

TI: So what would be examples?

KT: And then sometimes clothes, but clothing, even clothing, we don't... because we are in uniform. The only thing, only when you go outside that you're, we kept our own clothes so we have our own clothes. And the kimono my auntie gave me and all that, so I had enough things. So all I needed was the bus fare, train fare, and spending to eat, to keep myself.

TI: And so would it be like special kind of foods, or just simple foods that...

KT: Simple food, very simple food. It's very simple. They don't spend elaborate things. You don't have steak like Hawaii, no. More vegetables, fish.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: What are some other good memories or strong memories of Japan during these six years?

KT: Gee, that... because I wanted to learn Japanese, okay, that was it. That's how I learned my Japanese. And my father used to write to me, "Go and visit this person, I have something to do." Then I had to find a way to go. In order to do that, I have to talk to that person and find out how I can go and visit that person. So that made me independent, and the know-how, how to go about a strange country. Because I don't know Tokyo, I didn't know Yokohama, I didn't know nothing. All I needed was Tsurumi there, and Tsurumi was way up on the hill, and when you come down you have to walk to the bus, to the station. So I had to do everything. So when my father said, "Go visit this person," I look at the address, I don't know how to go about. Now, this is where I have to learn how to go about in a strange country. So I had to learn by myself everything. What I did was go to... where a man, station, a police standing in place, and ask that person how you go. And he explained. By that time, I was good in Japanese, I can talk. That's how I found people and found the house. And you know, Japan, I visit all of my father's friends, I never met the wife. Strange, they don't come out. It's only the person that I was supposed to meet. And it was, and it was always somebody, the front boy. And I met them, talked to what I want and got my message through, and I left. But that's how I met all of my father's friend in Japan.

TI: Now, these friends, earlier you mentioned there was high-class, middle-class...

KT: Yeah, they're all above me.

TI: They were high-class.

KT: Yeah. Captain of the boat Nippon Maru, and warship navy captain, all upper-class. And even the haiku teacher, they used to send the haiku over, I even went to him, his house, too. All by finding my way through without nobody help, my own decision, how to go about, where to ask, and how to ride the train. That's why I'm very independent today. I am. I do everything myself. I don't depend on others.

TI: That's good. When you went to these, these important people's houses, did you...

KT: They're well-kept.

TI: ...did you bring something from your father like a gift?

KT: Yeah. I always had something from my father.

TI: Do you know what that was, what you gave them?

KT: Sometimes, I don't know what it is, but I had something with me and I brought it over. Or sometimes it's a material. And then we just talk. And it's not a long talk, you know, just short one. Do my business and I get out.

TI: And did you, when you saw the different classes, so you lived with someone middle-class and then you met these upper-class...

KT: Oh, it's a very, very different... and I was very fortunate that I lived with the middle-class people. Then I went to the dorm, 'cause I went another school after I graduated high school. And I lived with a upper-class family. So I had dormitory life, a middle-class family, and a high-class. The high school... when I was in Tokyo, her husband was, I think, senate. And before that, he was a navy boat, top. That's how my father met him when they came to Hawaii. So I went with them and then already, he was already gone, so she was, his wife was alone. And she, she was strict. So every morning, we had ozen breakfast. Everything is ozen in a room, served by the maid. And you know, I cannot talk to the maid. Not like Hawaii, you know, you can talk and eat with them. We cannot do that.

TI: Because you were considered upper-class.

KT: Yes, we were. We were considered on the upper-class, because they were, treated me as...

TI: As family.

KT: Family. And then when people come, there's a boy, they called it shosei, that get all the message and bring. That's how it is. And the maid is in the kitchen, so you cannot... so when she's not around, I go and talk. So I learned lots from her also. And taking a bath, it's the master first. You're the last. It's always the master first, and I just happened to be, he was in the navy. He used to come back, but he always went first.

TI: And how did he treat you?

KT: Oh, they treated me like their own daughter, and he treated me like his sister. So I was really lucky. I don't know... that's why I liked, maybe that's the reason why. [Laughs] But I had my own life. I can do what I want to do, yeah. I can go out with my friends and all that. So...

TI: That's a pretty amazing experience. When I think about your, your beginnings in Hilo, very simple family, and then to live with a high-class family...

KT: Yeah. That's why, you know, the life in Japan was from, from the dormitory, ordinary, to a middle-class, and then to an upper school, and to the top. So my life was, step by step, went. So I did experience, for my ninety-one years, the life that I'm supposed to go, that everyone did. So I'm very lucky when it comes to that.

TI: Okay, good.

KT: When you come to that, I think I, that's why maybe I went Japan. Although, in Japan during the war, the Hawaii boys had a rough time, but I didn't have because I was always on the upper level class. So nobody did.

<Begin Segment 8>

TI: You know, when you were in the upper class family, you mentioned he was in the navy. Was there ever any discussions or hear anything about their thoughts about the United States?

KT: No, they never said anything. But I have one experience that I would like to let you know. In 1937, that was about the second, about year before I graduated from the Tsurumi high school. It was a history class. And I opened the book, and it was about Pearl Harbor, the book. And to me, I didn't know Pearl Harbor. I was fifteen when I left Hawaii, we never did to go Honolulu, that was the first time out there, I never knew was Pearl Harbor. What was the reason Pearl Harbor was there, too. We don't know anything about it. And here in the history book, right there was about Pearl Harbor. I was reading that. And then, I don't know why, this teacher, his name was Tanaka, I think, he was the history teacher, was giving the lesson. He looked straight at me -- I was the only Hawaii girl in that class -- he looked straight at me and he said, "Murakami, Hawaii totte yaru." That means he's gonna take Hawaii. So they had intention on doing, going to war with Hawaii already, but I didn't know that. But Pearl Harbor, he said he's gonna take Pearl Harbor. When I heard that, I stood up and said, "See if you can take it," in Japanese, and I sat down. I don't know why I did that, but I said, my feeling was nobody gonna take my country. Must have been that. But I did that. He never said a word. He was shocked. Good thing the bell rang, he had to leave. But the whole class was quiet, and I didn't know why I did that. But lately, it's been bothering me. I wonder why I did that.

TI: What an amazing story.

KT: So it was because of my country. So at that time, 1937, China and Japan was at war already. So he was ready to go to war. And he tell that. That's not right. But I said my piece.

TI: Okay, good.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: You know, when you were thinking that you might stay in Japan, after six years, what do you think you would have done if you stayed in Japan?

KT: Because I had a boyfriend. [Laughs] They don't know. [Referring to family members in the room]

TI: So tell me, so how did you meet this boy?

KT: Huh?

TI: How did you meet this man?

KT: It just happened one of my friends said, "Let's go out." And she said, okay, I just followed her. And it happened she had, her friend from the same area, she came, and through him, we met. And then that boy wanted to learn English, so I had, that's how.

TI: But then finally you got this letter from your mother saying how you need to come home.

KT: Yeah, I did.

TI: Also --

KT: It was already, 1940 was, in Japan, we had to help a lot of things. And the food was getting scarce, so we had to eat the rice, brown rice, more brown, no white rice, and very simple food came out. It was very hard at that time. So my mother said, "You have to come back," so I said, "Okay." I took the last boat. That was the last boat that came out from Japan.

TI: And when you left, was there a sense that Japan was gonna go to war?

KT: Yeah. I sensed that already because of the, how they were telling us, "Go and help do this, this..." and all the, every one of them, we had to go out to help. And the food was getting scarce. That we found out. So she said, "Go," "Okay, I'm coming." That was the last boat that was coming out from Japan, Tokyo, Yokohama. And it happened to be Asama, the same boat that I came. It was the same day that I reached Japan, August 16th. August 16th, I left. So completely six years I was in Japan.

TI: Interesting.

KT: Amazing.

TI: Yeah, good.

KT: August 16th, I reached Japan, August 16th, I left Japan. So completely six years.

<Begin Segment 10>

TI: Okay, so we're gonna start up again. Before we leave Japan, I heard during the break that you climb Mt. Fuji?

KT: Oh, yeah. Tsurumi, I think it was third or the fourth grade, summer vacation, they all have a program for the students to take, either go ocean or mountain, and I chose Mt. Fuji. So we walked, you know, from, after we took the train ride to Shizuoka, the bottom of the Mt. Fuji, and from there, you walk with a stick. And then we reach to the camp, I think it was on the eighth, number eight. So we had two more to go to climb up yet. And I said, "No, I cannot go already. I cannot already." And we had the teacher go with us anyway. It just happened, my first grade teacher and my second grade teacher was there, and he said, "You came all the way over from Hawaii, you got to climb to the top." "But I cannot." Said, "Okay, then, I'll carry you." The second grade teacher, "Okay, I'll carry you." And the first grade teacher said, "I'll carry your bag." That's what they did. The teacher carried my bag, one teacher piggybacked me, and I climbed up. And then they dropped me, and then I took the photo from Mt. Fuji, the top.

TI: Oh, that's a good story.

KT: But you know, at the eight, on the eighth floor, there's a cabin, we sleep overnight. We have to sleep overnight. And you get up early in the morning and see the sunrise. That sunrise was something that I cannot explain. It's a beautiful, beautiful sunrise that was so... that Mt. Fuji. It's something that I cannot forget. I climbed Mt. Fuji, that's how I did.

TI: That was a good story.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: So let's go, so you leave Japan, you get a letter from your mother to return to Hawaii, you return on the last ship, exactly six years after you arrive. So talk about the trip back to Hawaii.

KT: Well, the trip back to Hawaii wasn't that bad, but most of them was, it was packed. That boat was packed. So all the people that was in Japan for traveling and all that tried to get to that boat. So there was a lot of island people on the boat, that's how we got together with all of them and we got to know most of them in there. I have the passenger book of that, I didn't know, but it's there. And have all the names and everybody. And so I was not too bad coming home. I guess we were happy.

TI: So was there anybody special on this, on this boat ride?

KT: Yeah, and then we met, I met all the principal of the island. There was one principal from Hawaii, two from Kauai, Maui I didn't see. But they talked Japanese so they all came to talk to us because three of us came back from the same school, Tsurumi. So we got to know all of them, and the rest of them are from the island, that I knew some of them, so I start talking to them, too. But mostly I was with the... that's how my husband was in that boat, too. I just happened to meet, we just talked, that's it. And that was all. [Laughs]

TI: Was there any attraction between the two of you?

KT: No, nothing. It was nothing. [Laughs] Nothing, because the Kauai principal was hanging on to me more, because we can talk Japanese, that's why. So we were more on that. And then the mainland, mainland, one guy from the mainland was interested in us, too, so we were always, always with them. The Hawaii boys was on the separate place. I just met them, I'd say, "Hi."

TI: Now, the principals, they were interested in you, why were they interested in you?

KT: Because we can talk Japanese. And they were telling us, "Slow down, slow down when you talk." We were talking in Tokyo word. Tokyo is fast. So when we talked Japanese, it goes fast. So they used to tell us, "Slow down, slow down and talk to us."

TI: So your Japanese was even better than the principals' --

KT: Yeah, we were good in Japanese already. You know, after six years, you should be. [Laughs] So we were good, and we were all in Tokyo, Tokyo words. And all Tokyo is standard, very nice words, not the slang. So we were talking that, so that's why they got more interested, because we talked a clean Japanese word.

TI: Did any of them want you to come teach at their school?

KT: No, nobody said that. But I came back and I taught at Mountain View school anyway, three months before the bombing came.

TI: And how did you get that job teaching Japanese?

KT: I don't know. They were looking for teachers, I think, and they know who came back from Japan. Some of them know, I guess. That's how I got picked, I understand. "Would you be willing to teach?" I had nothing to do, so at least I'll get some spending money, so, "Oh, okay." That's how I got into that. And that was three months only before the bomb came.

<Begin Segment 12>

TI: Before we go to the war, when we came back to Hilo, how was that for you? How had the family changed, Hilo changed?

KT: That's the part. [Laughs] They were all stranger to me. So I was alone, let's say. Because they don't talk Japanese, they only talk English. It's something that, I couldn't get too close to them because of the six years that, the best year of a girl, fifteen to twenty-one. That's when you get very close to your sisters, yeah? That I didn't have. I lost that. So when I came home, I was a stranger.

TI: How about with your mother? Your mother...

KT: Oh, Mother was all right. She was waiting for me to come back because as soon as I came back, says, "I'm going to have my operation. You're gonna come and sleep with me." She had a gallstone operation. She waited until I come back.

TI: And she wanted you to be with her?

KT: Me be with her. So I was with her at the hospital until she got her gallstone out. She waited for me.

TI: How about your relationship with your father?

KT: Oh, my father was, he was happy to see me, too.

TI: And did people comment on your Japanese when you came back? How much it had changed?

KT: No, they don't say it. There was nothing, because most of them speak English. And even picking up the phone, the word, "moshi moshi" came out. Without thinking, it just come out. You know, instead of saying, "Hello," I used to say, "moshi moshi." They used to laugh, so I had to stop.

TI: And what was it like for you going from Tokyo, one of the major cities of the world, back to Hilo? Was it a big shift for you?

KT: Oh, I think Japan... those days, it's safe. Those days was safe, so you can go alone anyplace you want to go, as long as you have money to ride the train and go out. So you can do most of the things by yourself, and I did it because I learned how to go about. So I was okay. I did a lot of things by myself. I didn't depend on others. So I know I can leave there, and through my father, I met friends, and the family, they all greeted me to their house. Even one family, one of the guy, he was a bright guy. He liked me. And then the lady that I stayed with wanted me to get married to him. She was trying to get... well, he was already married on that birth certificate. You know, Japan koseki? He was already married. So she said, "He's already married." [Laughs] But I went with him all over the place, 'cause he always called me, "We're going this place, you want to come?" Just as a friend, we went. So I had ways of going about in Japan, so safe for me to stay there as long as I can find a job. But I didn't think about job at that time, 'cause my mother said, "You better come home," so that's why I didn't do that.

TI: So it seems the big shift for you was that in Japan, you were very independent, you do everything, and then when you came back to Hilo...

KT: I was close.

TI: Yeah, the family and there were certain expectations.

KT: Yeah. Because I didn't know them. That six years was something that closed it, I guess. It took a while, anyway. But it was okay with me, because I was independent, I can do it myself.

TI: Well, how did you like teaching Japanese?

KT: Well, I didn't think I was going to be a teacher. [Laughs] Because most of while I was in Japan, I... after I graduated the high school, I went to a school that teaches sewing, flower arrangement, tea ceremony, those are the things my father wanted me to learn anyway. So that was my intention of teaching those things. So I taught most of that. But when they approached me and they wanted a teacher there, said, "Okay." So I went up there.

TI: And how did you like that?

KT: Oh, not that bad. I liked it. It was okay. And it was something different, and I learned how to do it, as long as you can read the book. And the principal, and we all, only three teachers, so we got very close, and how to go about, he taught. So it was okay. It was okay. The children was bright, though. [Laughs]

TI: I'm sorry, they were bright?

KT: Oh, they were bright children. One of them became a mayor of Hilo.

TI: Good.

<Begin Segment 13>

TI: So now I want to move to December 7, 1941. And you told me earlier, way back in 1937, that teacher talked about Pearl Harbor and they studied about that. So on December 7, 1941, Japan bombs Pearl Harbor.

KT: Yeah. That's the one. I was so shocked, "So they did it." That's what my first thought was. And then I didn't say anything. Then my father got taken away.

TI: But back up, so why didn't you say anything? When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, you said you thought about it, then you didn't say anything. So why, why didn't you say anything?

KT: I didn't want to, 'cause I had a hunch they were gonna do it already with that first, the teacher saying that to me. So I closed my mouth.

TI: And then the next morning, they pick up your father.

KT: Yeah. That's when I thought, oh... and my father was somebody that did so much for Japan. He did a lot. He did a lot in his way. So it was something that's gonna be done.

TI: So it didn't surprise you.

KT: [Shakes head] It didn't surprise me at all. But I knew, "Why'd that person get..." some, they didn't do nothing and they went. So I was just wondering why. For my father, I knew why.

TI: Because you saw the important people he knew in Japan.

KT: I knew the point why. But he took it. But when I read that poem, they had it rough in Sand Island. They had it rough in Sand Island. Because he didn't say that was a concentration camp, it was prison. That's the word he used, "prison."

TI: So you're talking about a poem he wrote while he was at Sand Island.

KT: The poem he wrote.

TI: That's a haiku he wrote.

KT: Yeah. So when I read that, I thought, "Oh. They must have been treated rough."

<Begin Segment 14>

TI: Before we talk about your father and his poem, I want to talk about what happened to you. So they took away your father, he worked for the Nippu Jiji.

KT: Oh, yeah.

TI: And then they came to you.

KT: Yeah, you know, December 8th he was taken. The very next day or that day, I don't know, very next day, I had a call from Nippu Jiji. They told me, "Will you take over your father's job?" And we needed money to eat. Said, well, if I worked, then maybe at least we'd get some income. So I said, "Okay, I'll do it. And what I'm supposed to do?" or this and that. I said, "Okay, I'll do it." So I did it until my father came back. So that was '41 until '45.

TI: And how did you like doing that job?

KT: Well, I liked it, and I could talk Japanese, and the people were so happy that I can talk Japanese. And I did it right, I think, in that people liked me, so they continued taking my newspaper. That was my main purpose, so that we get jobs. And at least that income helped us.

TI: Now, the other thing that your father did, he sold subscriptions and ads, but he also wrote articles for the paper. Did you, did you do that --

KT: Yeah, he did write... I have one about his haiku. The rest, I didn't keep, she has some.

TI: But when you were in that job, did you ever have to write?

KT: Oh, I had to write about, because of the war, the 100th boys or the 442 boys passed away, then I had to go and visit them and write about that.

TI: You mean visit the family?

KT: Yeah. I had to go visit the family and write about their history. That I did. But not much, not much, it's not that bad, was in that. But it was a very... I didn't feel that good about it.

TI: It must have been very hard...

KT: Very hard.

TI: ...because the family had just lost their son.

KT: Yeah, it's very, very hard. That one experience I didn't like. I didn't like it. But since I had to work for that company, I had to do it, so I did it for that purpose.

TI: And for the, is it like an obituary?

KT: Yeah. It's not obituary, it's an article about the person. It's not obituary, it's article of what the person was and where he died and how old he was, the name and the parents' name.

TI: And when you would visit the family...

KT: I had to oshoko, too.

TI: Oshoko, and then you would ask them some questions.

KT: Yeah, I had to ask the question and all that.

TI: And was the family willing to do that?

KT: They did, they did. They gave me whatever I asked for, what I was supposed to ask anyway. So I did that.

TI: That must have been a hard thing for you to do.

KT: Yeah, it's always hard. It's a hard thing to do.

TI: Were there any other memories when you had this job that was maybe interesting or fun or hard?

KT: No, I just did my job, that's all. I just did what my father didn't finish. I finished a collection that he left, that he couldn't visit, I cleared everything with the people. Lot of them are very poor and they leave the bill up high, so I made a deal with them, knock off so many percent so the company gets some money from them. I did all that. I cleared all what he had left behind. That I did.

<Begin Segment 15>

TI: It sounds like you were, you were good at it?

KT: It's something that... I amaze myself. [Laughs] I said, "How the hell?" But somehow, I did it.

TI: Now, when...

KT: And the people was very nice to me. Very nice.

TI: Now, were you, like, one of the first women to have this position?

KT: I don't know if I was the first one, but anyway, in Hawaii, well, I had to take over my father's fund, so I'm the only one in that field for that company and for Hawaii. I don't know about the other islands.

TI: Did you ever travel to Honolulu to meet with the people?

KT: No, I never did that.

TI: And when they gave you the job, did they give you the job because they thought you would do a good job?

KT: No, not that. I don't think so. Because they needed someone there, right? Because they gave them permission to continue to run the newspaper, so they needed someone right away. And they knew I came from Japan, so they knew I can do it. They said, "All you have to do is to send the, write something. We'll ask you what to do then." That's what I did.

TI: So let's go back to your, your father now. When he was at the military camp, KMC, you know...

KT: KMC one I don't know because my sister below me had the power of attorney for my father. So she had the contact. We didn't have.

TI: Because I was wondering if anyone from the family had visited him.

KT: I don't know if we visited him. I think my sister did, no? Haru?

Off camera voice: No, I don't think so.

KT: I think we couldn't, I think.

TI: Because there were some other families that were able to visit, and that's why I was curious.

KT: Yeah, maybe some other family, but not my father.

TI: And so did you ever correspond with your father?

KT: No, I cannot. I didn't do anything. I just took the job and that's what I did. Just to continue so we can eat.

TI: And so you became, kind of, one of the main breadwinners for the family?

KT: Something like that. [Laughs] But the others helped, too, you know. Because my brother was working, and my two sisters were working and me working. So four of us or so was working. So we could manage somehow.

TI: And how did you, did you have a car to travel around?

KT: That's the part, that is the part. I didn't know how to drive yet, so my sister drove for me and we went. And downtown, I walked. I walked. Only the far one that... then after that, I got my license, then I went to travel all over and I got it all done.

TI: Oh, so but initially, you had to have a sister drive you.

KT: Yeah, my sister or my friends or somebody drive me, but we had the car.

TI: Interesting.

<Begin Segment 16>

TI: So let's talk about your father's poems. So when he was in the camps, he wrote two poems, I think?

KT: Yeah, two, three, I think. I have that with me. And because he had it, written the date and all that, the one was one, I think it was 1944, April, April when they flew to Santa Fe. That Santa Fe is New Mexico?

Off camera voice: They cannot fly then.

TI: They took a train.

KT: They went, I thought they fly. [Laughs] But he says, "sora."

TI: So Mrs. Hagiwara, can we get the poems, and I want to have her show 'em. So these were, I want you just to show the camera these, the poems.

KT: [Holding up poems] This is the one. This is the one, Santa Fe one.

TI: So, yeah, just hold it right there. Yeah, hold it like it's right there.

KT: This is for the Santa Fe one, and...

TI: So these are the original poems.

KT: This is the original, original, that's his writing.

TI: And can you, can you read that for us?

KT: Oh, I will read the back. The first word is, "Atatakaya shaba no ka u se shi te wo nigiru." So it means, "Warm but the prison feeling is gone. I shall pray." That's why, then they flew over.

TI: So this is when he went from --

KT: When he went to Santa Fe.

TI: To Santa Fe.

KT: Yeah. That's what is written here. "Atatakaya shaba no ka u se shi te wo (nigiru)." Haiku you read twice. Once you read, second time you read, then the feeling come in. In that short 5-7-5 word, the meaning is right there.

TI: And when was the first time you read these poems?

KT: When I first read this poem, I thought, "Oh, they must have had a rough time." Because when he says shaba, it's "prison," the word. It's not a place. And that one, the feeling, everything, gone. "We're going over, away from there." That's what it meant. So they must have had a hard time. When I read that, I thought, "Oh, he must have had..." well, we couldn't correspond with him anyway. So this is one poem that I really like.

TI: And when did you first see the poem? Was this after the war that you saw these?

KT: Oh, yeah. Way later I found this kind of stuff. I didn't know he wrote. I thought he didn't write. Because I know he didn't write anything down there. Ozaki-sensei did, Ozaki Otokichi, the Hawaii Times reporter, too. But he was our teacher in dokuritsu. I got contact with him, he wrote lot of poem there, but not him [referring to father]. This was the only poem, two, I think, that he wrote.

TI: And then the second one, you said he wrote two poems.

KT: "Tsuki ni naku tori ari kora no touki kana." He's being, follow where the children are, his family, his father's family. So he was thinking about us.

TI: Thank you for sharing that. So those were the two that he wrote.

KT: Yeah. The other one that... he had one that when he came back from intern, that's the one he wrote, that was, "Shima wa kea sa shi no wo sumu tokoro." That one I remember because I liked that poem so much because it said, "Where I live, Mauna Kea, that's where my family, my wife and children are." That's when he came back. That's what he wrote. That poem, it's in me. I liked it very much. I know his feeling. His feeling is there.

TI: Thank you, that was beautiful.

KT: I was going to give you folks this, but my daughter said --

TI: Oh, no, you should keep them. [Laughs]

KT: "No. If you're going to give, you should make a copy of it."

TI: You should probably frame them or something.

KT: So haiku is in the short time, you put all your feeling in. That's why Japanese haiku is real good, and I cannot do it. [Laughs]

TI: When your father came back, what was that like for you when you saw your father?

KT: Well, at least I knew he was safely home. And I could see that he was so happy to see the children, so that's why, that's the first photo they took of him, carrying her.

TI: 'Cause this was the first time he had seen them.

KT: Yeah. And he didn't show that he was unhappy or anything, he showed us he was very happy to see us. Right away, he changed up. [Laughs] Right away, he resigned from Nippu Jiji, Hawaii Times at that time, and opened his own shop. That was his dream.

<Begin Segment 17>

TI: Before we go there, so you mentioned when he came back, there was a picture of him holding your child, Carol. So let's go back, because you got married during the war. And so you mentioned how you met your husband on the ship, but you said at that point there was nothing that happened, or no attraction. So when did the two of you start dating?

KT: Oh. Yeah, it's a funny thing, you know. I was standing in my house veranda, and I saw two boys walking. And I look at them, "Hey, that guy, I know. I met him someplace." So I went out to see who it was, and that was my husband.

TI: And what's his name?

KT: Larry.

TI: Larry, okay.

KT: Tanimoto. Yeah, Larry. His Japanese name is Isao, but we call him Larry. He was with his friend, they were walking to go down to Hilo. That's how I met again. And so he started coming around. And I asked him to drive for me, and he taught me how to drive, and I got my license.

TI: And so when did the two of you start dating, that you got interested?

KT: Oh, right after that, I think. So it's '41 or early '42.

TI: And then how long before you got married?

KT: In '43. Year and a half, I think. 1943, yeah.

TI: Now, did you, before you got married, did you ask permission from your mother?

KT: No, I didn't ask anything. [Laughs] I gave them the surprise.

TI: So was it a big surprise when you decided to get married?

KT: My mother was, she knew what is love. She gave me the blessing. She did everything for me. I'm really grateful for her.

TI: And when your father came home, did he know that you were married and had a baby?

KT: I think he knew already.

TI: And so he looked happy holding his grandchild.

KT: Yeah. My sister's baby, boy, a little younger than her. My brother carried her.

TI: Good.

<Begin Segment 18>

TI: So you said your father came back, he started working at the Nippu Jiji, and so then you stopped working there.

KT: Yeah, I stopped.

TI: So what did you do then?

KT: No, after he... I was working until he retired. He said he's gonna retire, he's gonna open his own shop. So until then, I worked for the Times, Hawaii Times. And then when he opened his shop, I quit and I worked with him. I started with him.

TI: And so tell me a little bit about his business. It's a printing business he did?

KT: Yeah, it's a printing business. The main purpose he opened is because he wanted to print a Japanese newspaper. That was his plan, I'm quite sure. But owning newspaper doesn't go, so he went into printing. And then he got the first offset machine that came out. And when he bought that, he needed someone to run, so he called my brother, the older brother, to come, and he did it. He started the offset machine. And then, to let the public know, he ran the offset machine, how to run and everything, in the public, I think it was Mamo Theater, to show what a printing can be done. That's how my brother got involved, and I stuck with my father until I retired fifty years later.

TI: Oh, so the businesses lasted a long time.

KT: Yeah, it's still going, although it's not making money, but there it is. It's not making money at all. [Laughs]

TI: But it's a family business, though, still?

KT: Yeah, it's still, it's still... I'm still there. I'm not there, but I'm still in that.

<Begin Segment 19>

TI: Now, after the war, have you visited Japan?

KT: Yes, we did, on traveling, yes. Twice, twice, I think.

TI: And so what years did you return to Japan?

KT: When was it? I forgot what year it was. Two times, no? We went. The second time we went was I wanted to... because I was getting old, I wanted to meet my first cousins, which my mother's sister's children, they're all first cousin to me. I wanted to meet them, and I did. Every one of them. And they were surprised that I was eighty-something, yeah, and they said, "And you look much better than us." They're all younger than me. So that's how I met them. So I want to go back again, one more time.

TI: Good. I'm thinking, the people that you stayed with in Japan before the war...

KT: I didn't meet them. I didn't meet them.

TI: Do you know what happened to them?

KT: I don't know what happened to them. The address changed so much. I have the old address, but I don't know how to get in contact with them.

TI: Even like the manager of the hotel?

KT: But the first time when I went back, I got in contact with the house that I was living the last, I met them. That was the last I met them. And after that, I don't know what happened. They were getting old, too, already. But the lady died, that, they told me that.

TI: Did you ever have a good sense... do you have a good sense, a good sense of the, the suffering that they did after the war?

KT: Yeah, I don't know what they did. After the war, they had, they must have struggled. But the last time when I saw them, he was doing good.

TI: And when you went back the first time --

KT: First time, yeah, that's when I saw them.

TI: How much had Japan changed? It was long, many years...

KT: Oh, it changed a lot, a lot. Then you have to know how to go about that. It was different from the time I stayed there. Amazing. Amazing. They're terrific.

TI: Yeah, because you went at a time when Japan was doing really well.

KT: Yeah, they're doing well. They are something other. I can see why they brag. [Laughs]

TI: Good. Well, so I finished all my questions, I'm wondering if there's anything else that you want to talk about.

KT: No, it's good enough.

TI: [Speaking to KT's daughter] Or is there anything else that you can think of that I should ask her for the record?

KT: I covered most, yeah?

TI: Well, we should just mention, so you mentioned your husband Larry, and then you had how many children?

KT: Oh, three. Two and one in Maui.

TI: Okay, so Carol...

KT: Gwen and Iris.

TI: Iris. Okay, three, three girls.

KT: Three girls.

TI: Good. Okay, so I think that's...

KT: Yeah, my husband was the 100th Battalion.

TI: 100th.

KT: Yes.

TI: Is he, is he still alive, your husband?

KT: No, he's dead. Ten years already. Ten years already.

TI: So thank you so much for taking the time. I know I asked lots of questions.

KT: I hope I did okay.

TI: Oh, you did wonderfully. Both of you are such good storytellers. This was, this was fun. The Cultural Center will really like these interviews, so this will be good. So thank you so much.