<Begin Segment 26>

MN: Now, how was your relationship with Mr. Nomiyama changed as you had helped him on this, on trying to clear the names?

PM: Well, I think that he, he had to trust me, and he did, and as well as the other men. So our relationship grew much better, of course, because there was a mutual respect, I think, involved. I respected what he has done, and I still do, and I think he respects me for putting the effort in that I did. And so we're in pretty good shape, I think, as far as that goes. We're having a little problem right now, though, because I'm trying to save and salvage some of his bonsai, and he's very concerned about my efforts to do that because I'm a beginning bonsai person, and I don't have the experience. But I'm doing my best. [Laughs] I don't know if he respects my ability as a bonsai man at this point, but that's the only problem that we're having right now. He had some that were in the ground, niwagi, they call it, and so I dug them up and I'm trying to save them. And so far, they're alive, but I'm very concerned about it. [Laughs]

MN: Let me ask you about your father. Did he serve in the Pacific?

PM: No. He was a, he was a flight instructor in World War II, and, but he was never stationed outside the United States. He taught others how to fly bombers, and that's what he did.

MN: Did, what was his reaction to hearing about Mr. Nomiyama's story?

PM: My father had strong opinions about the war and what happened, but he's an open, big-hearted man, and he could understand and respect the position that my father-in-law has taken on this. So, you know, there were strong feelings about the Japanese. I mean, this is before my day, but he's lived through that. He was in the war, and he is past that. And they had a good relationship, both my parents and the Nomiyamas have gotten along in no other way but great during our marriage.

MN: Is there anything else I haven't asked you that you want to add?

PM: No, I don't think so. The only... just in general, about this situation, it's a difficult situation because, as Shirley has pointed out in her book, you have conscientious objectors, and you have what she characterized as "conscientious resisters" -- which is the DB Boys -- and she made a distinction. And I think it's an important distinction. Why are these men different -- and they asked me this question at the hearing at the Pentagon -- "Why are these men different than other conscientious objectors?" And in my mind, and I think she makes this point as well, is that it was really the immediacy of the problem to them. Now, my father-in-law, in his interview, has expressed that he was, he was concerned about racial equality in general, and yes, he certainly was. But he also points out that he was very concerned about what was immediately going on with the Japanese people. Because he did have family that -- although he wasn't married at the time and had no children, but his brother sure did, was married, at least. So it was, it immediately affected them in a way that most conscientious objectors don't have that. They have a general, a generalized objection to war or a particular war. And that's also a distinction, as to whether you protest war in general, or you protest a particular war such as the Iraq War. But these men had another layer of specificity to their experience that made them different. And I think that was a very important point. World War II, yes, there were protesters, but these guys didn't know about that or conscientious objection and these kind of things. They were reacting to a problem that was right in their face, that they felt that they had to do something about it. So there's no question in my mind over the sincerity of each of these men that I represented, had the honor to represent. And there's no, there's no doubt in my mind that they would have, they would have gone to battle and given their lives for the United States, but they needed something back with regard to this immediate problem that was going on. And I understand that. And so this is the way that they chose to meet that problem. And I think, while we certainly need the fighting men that actually chose to fight, we need some people questioning what's going on as well in order to improve. And I think, and part of the people who have objected and resisted such as we have in the black experience, the Martin Luther Kings, so to speak, and all of the others who went unnamed, who fought this fight at the lunch counters of the United States, we need those people, too. And so I'm glad that we have them, and we still have one sitting with us. That's my thinking about it. I may not have made that choice, I may have chosen to fight, but I respect what they did and I'm glad they did it.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.