<Begin Segment 25>

MN: Now, this was a two-year ordeal. How were you funding this?

PM: The men each chipped in, you know, there was really no funding. It didn't cost anything to do this. The only cost involved was our plane flight and lodging back in Washington, D.C., because we were granted a hearing that we had at the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. And so it was just that, and of course, they paid for it themselves. Every once in a while they would kind of put some money in a hat to help me defer some expenses that I went to in assembling the documents that we had, but the out-of-pocket cost was insignificant. It was my time, which I gladly donated and didn't ask for anything on that, but they were good enough to, as I say, pass the hat and give me some monetary remuneration for what I was doing.

MN: Well, if they actually went out and hired a lawyer, it would cost a lot of money.

PM: Well, the time that was put into it was significant. So it was a labor of love on my part.

MN: And your wife Lisa also helped out, right? She typed out...

PM: This is before computers, you know, so yeah, the brief, she typed it. I can remember her sitting at the IBM typewriter, you know, typing this, and I remember the sound of the erase button on the typewriter as we go. [Makes sound effect] It used to make that sound. She typed it, yeah. In the office, 'cause I had just started out at my practice, I got sworn in in December of '77, and we were doing this in 1980 through '82, so it was the first few years of my practice.

MN: And I know you said you went to this veterans organization in Los Angeles, but did you go to any other, like, 442nd group or any other Japanese American groups to help you?

PM: I enlisted the help of Senator Matsunaga and Senator Inouye. And they were helpful to me. They gave letters of recommendation, basically, and were sympathetic to what we were trying to do. I don't believe I went to the JACL, and I believe that that was intentional. A lot of the men did not have a good opinion of the JACL, and the reason why is because of the stance that the JACL took during the war, and basically saying, "Hey, we need to prove our worthiness as American citizens." That wasn't the position that they took. And so they didn't respect that position, and so I didn't enlist their help. No, I didn't go to the ACLU. The ACLU did not help these men back then, and there was some question as to perhaps why not. But the ACLU had a different position back then, too, which was all documented in Shirley Castelnuovo's book. She goes through that and explains that, and frankly, I learned about that through her book as well. But I didn't enlist their help. I can tell you, though, that since we have done what we have done, and in particular, as a result of the Loni Ding movie The Color of Honor in which our story was presented, and was mostly about the 442nd and the MIS, that I can tell you that the 442nd men who have expressed an opinion about the military resisters such as the DB Boys, they have been, they have been sympathetic towards that. They have expressed a respectful attitude towards the military resisters, and understanding that those men did what they thought was the right thing to do. And while, and while you may think that some of the men of the 442nd would say, "Well, the men who resisted were just trying to get out of combat duty and chickened out," so to speak, they don't feel that way, at least publicly, the opinions that I have received. Perhaps some do that have kept it to themselves, I don't know. But the ones that I have heard express an opinion have been respectful, and I admire them for that, because obviously they took, they did what they had to do and they put themselves in harm's way. And you've got to respect what they did in boatloads of respect.

<End Segment 25> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.