<Begin Segment 11>

MN: Mr. Nomiyama, why were you protesting?

TN: Huh?

MN: Why, why were you protesting?

TN: Complain? Principle, that's the main thing.

MN: What principle?

TN: Democracy, not equal treatment. It's a long history, Japanese. All the Issei, trying to come up, and they make all kind of role, pressed down. Can't have a citizenship, can't buy a house, nothing. So many way, long time, they press, press, press. Not even just the wartime. That's what I thought.

MN: But maybe you could get democracy if you fought for the army. You didn't think that way? Maybe you get democracy if -- can you hear me?

TN: Lower.

MN: Lower. [Laughs] Did you think that maybe you could get democracy if you fought for America?

TN: No. You see, I saw black people, long history. Do they have a chance that time? No, not a thing. I went to Washington with Paul and all that. I think when they made our Constitution, round the table, all white made the Constitution. Equal, you... whites. So they made a equal, good agreement. But they don't see the colored people. So I thought, oh, they made a good mistake. I, strong, that thought. They didn't think colored people is a people, human. All white down the table, equal. "I treat you equal, you treat me." Made a big mistake. That's what I thought.

MN: So until you were treated equal, you were not gonna fight?

TN: I wanted to clear my feeling by fighting for, anytime. Because, you know, after the war, I meet my friend, Turlock friend. Ever since I come from Japan, he hung around with me. Kiyono-san, Kiyono. And when I joined the army, Turlock people give me a party. City, city gave me a farewell party. That time, I made a speech, broken English, I say, "This is gonna be my country, I give my life." I saw after the war, I saw Kiyono-san. He said, "Nomiyama-san, you made a statement one time, I mean, at that time. You say you're gonna give your life to his country." [Laughs] I was kind of surprised, but that's the way we was brought up. Your country, you have to give everything.

MN: But you could be court martialed and sentenced to death for disobeying orders. Weren't you scared of disobeying orders?

TN: No, I don't scared, because I didn't disorder anything, disobey anything. I'm not scared, no. I have no fear.

MN: How long were you in the stockade?

TN: In Alabama, maybe one year, then removed to Leavenworth.

MN: Can you share with us what this is?

TN: Yeah. This is the one I made in Alabama stockade. It's a box, you know, and all big part out there, I thought I'm gonna save, and I started work.

MN: What did you use for a chisel?

TN: I made it from spring, bedspring. And we have a coal stove, we have a little hammer, I made a little chisel and little knife, all kinds, and I start doing that. I even made a shogi, I couldn't find it. I don't know, someplace I put it.

MN: And shogi is like American chess, kind of similar. They have pieces, wooden pieces that you carved?

TN: Yeah.

MN: And a board?

TN: That's at the stockade, we did. Leavenworth, we can't do.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.