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MN: Now, let's talk about City Hall. First of all, before the war started, you were able to get a lot of donations through the Cultural Affairs budget. Was that very difficult to have them support Manzanar through donations, and what was the donation going towards?

RO: Well, as you know, Sue Embrey, the chair of the Manzanar Committee, organized a pilgrimage every year. And it was a potluck. And so one of the things that I would do is round up food. Gilbert Lindsey, who represented Little Tokyo, and his aide, Arlene Kuba, would get me crates of oranges and apples. But there's other grants that have been provided to buy busses . The city, there are, many city council members supported Manzanar.

MN: So you were able to work internally to gather that support. And then it was your idea to get the L.A. City Council to pass a resolution in support of Manzanar. Now, why was it important for the city council to pass this resolution?

RO: Well, over the years, Manzanar was supported by most of the council members, is that at this critical stage, the former deputy mayor for Tom Bradley now became president of the Department of Water and Power. And now we were at this point where we've introduced legislation, we're trying to get council support so that we could move forward in Washington. And Mike Gauge was vehemently opposed. His argument was that the presence of the Park Service would undermine their water, their water rights. So he was couching it in environmental rights versus civil rights. And actually, some people thought that he wanted to run for mayor, because Tom Bradley was gonna be termed out. So we went to council to ask for their resolution. And one day, Sue was there, I was an executive in the mayor's office, so I could not be the face of Manzanar within City Hall. And Sue testified at the hearing. And I saw Mike Gauge pulled her aside, and this is a bull of a guy, and he's jabbing his fingers at Sue and he said, he said, "This'll never happen. Over my dead body." And he said, "Settle for a city park." After that exchange, Sue came over to me and she said, "I was terrified. I was trembling." And I said, "Oh, from where I sit, looked like it was righteous indignation." But she, she said to him, "The city did not incarcerate me, and the federal park is the only way." And in any event, so we marched on. But the fight was not only in the city. They moved over to Congress.

MN: Well, before we get into Congress, now, I understand Michael Gauge, when he was given this city resolution, when that was introduced, is it correct to say that he threw it on the floor?

RO: Yeah, yeah. He crumpled it and threw it on the floor. While I already had the votes, that didn't make them very happy. So we had unanimous support from the council.

MN: So when the actual resolution came before the city council for a vote, was he there? And if Michael Gauge was not present at the vote, how were they able to pass the resolution?

RO: Actually, at one committee hearing, actually, he was not present. And the staff asked that we delay the vote, and the committee chair, president Ferraro just said, "Forthwith," and approved it without him.

MN: So you were able to really get a lot of support for Manzanar internally.

RO: You know, my job was go to before council for the criminal justice office, and I'd been with the city many, many years. But the point is, yes, it's the mayor's relation, but it's actually, it's individual.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.