<Begin Segment 15>

RO: And I'd like to tell the story, is one of the most amazing challenges was my participation on the Select Commission on Immigration and Refugee Policy under President Carter. I was invited to serve, and when they called me, I was skiing with my friends in Utah, and they said, "It's the White House." And I said, "Yeah, sure." And it was the White House, and they offered me this position on this commission. And I said, "Oh, you know what? I don't know anything about immigration. Let me, how about Alan Ali, how about Dennis Mukai?" whatever, and they said, "No, you've been selected." So here's this body, it's the first time you have, you have cabinet members, four leaders from the Senate and Congress and four public members. One was Cruz Reynoso, so he was from the California Supreme Court and a labor leader, and the chair was Father Hesburgh. So we have their first meeting, we're in the State Department and you have Kennedy speaking and you have cabinet members speaking, and everyone doing their little prepared speech. And then they're about ready to just call a press conference, and I says, "Excuse me? I just have an opening remarks," and I just said something to the effect of, "Historically, immigration policies and practice have been arbitrary and racially discriminatory. And as we move forward on this, we need to be mindful of this," blah, blah, blah. And they were all staring at me because they could see I came to play. And the reason is, I had heard that the keys were the people that Clinton -- not Clinton -- Carter turned to to identify someone for this post. And all they wanted was somebody that would not be afraid of the cabinet members and would speak the Asian voice. And they knew I didn't know anything about immigration, but they said they heard that she wasn't afraid of anyone, Chief Davis, and she was a legal aid lawyer, and, "Don't worry about the policy."

So throughout -- and there were very difficult moments on the commission -- where I would climb all over. One day they were saying something about, "Okay, we're gonna change the amnesty provision that if you break residence during your time in the U.S., you're ineligible." And I'll say, "Excuse me?" You know, I said, "Do we want to say Mexicans are not going to be a part of the amnesty program?" I says, "The nature of the agriculture business and their work, the proximity to the border and the importance of family? They're all gonna have violated by this policy." And there are other times I would go over to a Republican conservative member and I'd say, I'd find out that he has an Asian daughter-in-law. I says, "Don't you think it's important to have family reunification?" And now you have, not Carter, but now it's the Reagan administration, and everything started getting, like, anti-family preference, preference. And so I'm, like, alone on a lot of these battles. And one time, I jumped up and tore into Father Hesburgh. Oh, he was complaining that Japan wasn't doing enough to take in refugees. And I said, "I'm not an apologist for Japan, but just remember, they did not, they did not begin this war in Vietnam." And then I'd talk about the size of their country and whatever. But I was on top of him. And I heard, following that debate, that Senator Kennedy turned to his colleague and he said, "Where did they find her? Does this woman have balls." And I thought, "Papa would be so happy."

MN: But tell me, what, what makes you so fearless? You've been in a lot of battles. I mean, some people would just shrink away.

RO: Well, there's two things I would say. One is, before I left, I recognized this is a different kind of a body. And I happened to go by former Kenny Han's office, and he was a fighter. And there was a little motto on his desk, and it said, it said that, "If you have... if you are pure or you're brave, you are a majority." So why I was so powerful is most members, cabinet members, everybody, they're scripted. So if something starts off, they're not in there. Most of them are very knowledgeable and talented, but they got many things on their plate. And so they're scripted and they're prepared. So I can, I can just speak. There are a couple of times where I would just jump in to something 'cause it's not in our packet. Staff will recommend all of a sudden that we should have English preference for admissions. And I says, "Excuse me? Mr. Attorney General Civiletti? Mr. Rodino? Your grandfather's couldn't have been admitted under that policy." So lots of times I just shoot from my hips. I'm not prepared, 'cause not even any of the staff could help me. Sometimes, one time, they created a new policy and they said, "Okay, we want -- before you can regularize and become a citizen, you have to return to your sending country." I didn't know what the facts were. I says, "You were the former counsel for the INS. Do you get ahead in lying if you want to regularize your status?" He said, "No." "You, Mr. Ambassador So-and so," and I used everybody in the room to fill out the factoids, and this is against Civiletti. And I looked at him and I said, "I don't know who's pushing this. The airlines?" I had fun.

MN: But, see, people would -- like, most people would be afraid to speak up because they would think they would burn bridges or their careers, they wouldn't be able to go up.

RO: That's an important point. See, I never had a career. I mean, if you go... after you go to law school, and it cost a lot of money to go to law school. Turned down a chance to be a U.S. attorney because of prosecuting draft dodgers, and I take a Reggie for ten thousand dollars a year working, like, phenomenal hours, we can talk about my time at...

MN: Okay, okay.

RO: But you're not worried about consequences.

MN: Those are not things that you ever worried about, then.

RO: That's not true, because from time to time, I'll say, "Good." You know what? They're still looking at me, "Wonder why you're still looking at me," 'cause I've been out there. When I came back -- well, when I went through all my three confirmations, or two confirmations, three presidential appointments, but everything's been out there.

MN: And my understanding is the White House, you came to their attention because you took on the LAPD chief Ed Davis.

RO: Yeah.

MN: And, you know, not a lot of people would take on the chief of police.

RO: Well, you know, he's a wonderful man, I have to tell you. I, after -- we can talk later about my experience as a Reggie. But when I went to City Hall, I went to work for Terry Hatter, who was my boss at Western Center, and he was my law professor from Race, Racism, and American Law. He has been an important factor in my career. When he was appointed to the bench, he recommended to the mayor that I succeed him. So I decided to go visit the chief, and he said, "Oh, my god." Tom Bradley and they were colleagues in the police department when Tom Bradley was an officer. He said, "The mayor done, done wrong for me, oh, my gosh." He says, "A woman, a lawyer, and an ACLU type." And I said, "Chief, I was a teacher." He said, "Oh, teacher, that's good." I said, "Listen. We have to fight with the county, we have to fight with the state, and we need to be on the same team, and I'm your advocate. I'm gonna be your champion. So you have to look at it like this: it's like a pick-up basketball game. Sometimes you're skins, sometimes you're shirts." He says, "Okay, you be skins." He was good. You know, he had a reputation, and he was very effective, but he was a very intelligent, smart man, and we partnered to the best interests of the city many times.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.