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TI: Before we go there, what was the work you did for Mr. Murata? What was the... what did you do?

FH: Mostly I did driving, delivering orders. I did some sales, I did picking up cargoes from the ships, I did a lot of that kind of thing. And I didn't know this 'til later, but Mr. Murata's father was in his eighties when I started. He was quite an alert eighty as I think back. But the point is, Koji was also a UCLA graduate. He was about 1909, about five years older than me. Now, Koji was supposed to go and contact Montgomery Ward, Sears & Roebuck, W.T. Grant, Woolworth company. These are corporate, you know, sale place. He says, "Fred, I want you to go and make contact." I'm just a kid out of high school, okay? I know nothing about making visits to these corporations. I knew no better, but he said that's my job. He told me later he was supposed to do it, but he was scared. He said, "Fred will do anything, so send him." And so I went, opened up accounts with these companies so we could sell goldfish and food supplies and aquarium system. I didn't think anything about it. Koji later says, "Fred, I have a confession. You did so well. I was supposed to do that, you did it and you weren't scared." In those days, it was unusual for Japanese Americans to try to do anything outside of their small community because they were not accepted or they felt they're gonna be rejected unless you're just dumb enough and didn't know, like me. So I'd just go there without thinking about it.

TI: Well, so what made you different? What made you more bold or more able to go out beyond the community?

FH: Well, I think one is that going back to when I was twelve, making these crates, and I did it just same as another man full, to full-grown man, and I kept up with him. I said, well, I can do what he can do. So just self-confidence.

TI: Now, as you did this, were there times when it was hard, or that you failed?

FH: Oh, I failed many times.

TI: So talk about that. What did you learn from some of your failures?

FH: [Laughs] I said the word "gaman" meant so much. Mother taught us three, three concepts when we were in Livingston growing up, no father. Gaman, you got to hang in there; two, there are times when you just have to accept and go on, shikata ga nai. The ability to do something, the solutions is one, nai, shikata ga nai. And then the third is you have to pay back, giri, obligations, don't ever forget. Especially our case, so many people helped us. Personal obligations and to society, 'cause, "No one makes it alone," she said. And she's so right. She wasn't a big lady, but she had good smarts. And so those three concepts helped me. Going back to why, I remember all those concepts that she taught us, and they helped me. When things were rough, I'd just say, "Hey, just got to hang in there, Fred. Something will change. Better tomorrow." So that's also optimistic approach to life, and that's very important. Don't give up, hang in there.

TI: But do you remember as a, especially as a young man, when you were first starting out in this business, a failure, in that you had to gaman?

FH: Well, many times I felt, gee, I wished I had a father like the other families. But I used to order some stuff and sell salves, you know, going around selling salves to the neighbors. And it was only fifty cents, but they would buy it because, "Poor Fred, no father. Sure, we'll buy one." And I used to sell those to make a few cents here, a few cents there. And enough money to buy bullets for our .22 to shoot robins when they were perching at night. I still feel bad about, they would come at nighttime in the cherry tree, and they'd roost four or five in a row. So you get a right angle, one bullet would drop two, three birds. If you hit 'em, of course, you've got to hit 'em. [Laughs]

TI: So you were pretty handy with a rifle.

FH: Rifle, fishing yeah. Hunting, yeah, we did all that. That's the fun part of growing up in Livingston. I missed all that in San Francisco.

TI: So you mentioned the hardships of not having a father. Can you remember something where a father really would have been helpful?

FH: Well, one certainly is that father took you places. We have to go anywheres, we have to go on our own. And we have to hitch up a horse and go on the sled or a buggy. Some of the homes had cars, automobiles. Now, father alive, maybe he could have afford automobile. Mother finally bought a Ford, I remember, before we left. That was just started. That was '29 or maybe '28, 'cause she got sick '29. Yeah. Well, but that's part of growing up, and I think all these experiences strengthen you inside. So I feel good about that. You know, people say, "I wouldn't change a thing." If I could, I wouldn't even change it. Because what you are is what you are, and that's it.

TI: Okay, so let's continue. So you worked four years for Mr. Murata.

FH: Yeah.

TI: And then your brother took your place.

FH: Well, my brother took my place after a couple of years. I mean, he joined, joined me. He and I worked together for a while. But after fourth year, I was able to go back to school. So I started at San Francisco College. And because of this tennis court, okay, tennis court, I knew how to play tennis. So I played tennis and got a block SF, which is a varsity letter. In those days, Niseis wait teams, like a circle SF, not a block SF. But I was a young, small Nisei that got a block letter. Very few Nisei could do it, 'cause they're small. I'm small, but I was on the team, and we won championship. I'm not good. I was the sixth man on a six-man tennis team, but we had the city doubles, national doubles junior champion, we had a city, A mark with the city, singles champion. So we had one single for sure and a doubles sure. Somehow, we won the championship. I may have lost all my matches, but the rest of the team won.

TI: So you were a varsity tennis player on a college team.

FH: Absolutely. I did that in high school, got my block letter. But in college, it starts to divvy up. There were better players. But I was able to be on the championship team, tennis, so that helped me. [Laughs]

TI: Now did, back then, did they give you any money for being on the sports teams or on...

FH: Oh, no money.

TI: So there's no scholarship or anything like that.

FH: No. Those days, I've never heard of those things.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.