<Begin Segment 28>

MN: So from Kalamazoo you went to Detroit?

CH: Yeah, Detroit. I went to Detroit. You know, they had a B-12 program for the naval officer learning over there, B-12 program they had, I know. And they had, from our camp, I think, few people went in. From other place, all waiter, for the student over there. Yeah, that wasn't good. I quit.

MN: And you picked apples in Detroit?

CH: Yeah. I worked, I think, one week or ten days, something like that. Not a good job.

MN: And then from Detroit, you went to Cleveland?

CH: No, then from, there was that, University of Michigan, that's not in Detroit, it's in Lansing. I think it's Lansing, Michigan. From Lansing I went to Detroit. My girlfriend from Heart Mountain came, so, "Come on down." Detroit, oh, what a dump that is. Detroit wasn't a good feeling, that days.

MN: So from Detroit, you went --

CH: Yeah, my friend sent me a letter from Manzanar. "Hey, I'm in Cleveland, so come on down." And that's why I went Cleveland. And I stayed in Cleveland maybe half a year.

MN: And you worked at the Blue Boar cafe?

CH: Blue Boar restaurant, yeah, there was nothing but women working there. [Laughs] Yeah, there was no man. It's amazing, you know that? Only men was black people. And kurombo girls and white girls. And you know, when I went Cleveland, discrimination, you know that? I thought they give you uniform working that kind of place, so I don't know what that place is. So I got, happened to go inside the restroom and was changing, that manager came, "Hey, you better get out of here." I told him, "What for? I'm changing my clothes?" "No, your place is this other place." I said, "What other place?" Then I went to other place, "Well, what's the difference? Same thing." "That's for black people." Cleveland now. That's way up in the north. That's north of Mason-Dixon line.

TI: This was the restroom area, or the changing, I mean...

CH: Oh, change the clothes. Restroom.

TI: So a different place.

CH: Yeah. I was really surprised. 'Course, I know how it was in Arkansas. I know there was prejudice in Arkansas, not in Cleveland, though, you know.

MN: You had a hakujin girlfriend in Cleveland. So when people asked you --

CH: Hey, you know why I got a hakujin? There's no men. You'd be surprised during the wartime, you go to big city, lot of women. Especially when I was working in the country club, they're all women or black people, but they don't have fun with black ones.

MN: So when they asked you, "What are you?" What did you tell them?

CH: Lot of times I gave 'em... "Mongoloid" was the first thing I say. "'Mongoloid,' what is that?" "Well, a Mongoloid's a Mongoloid." You know, they don't know the difference. They never asked me, a lot of them. But when I take my hakujin girlfriend to the theater, the news come out, in the Philippines, all the Japanese soldier were getting killed, I said, "I got to go toilet." [Laughs] I used to walk out. Then I used to come back and sit down and watch. But they never talk about war, you know, them people. It was amazing. It was nice. Even in Chicago, I had a hakujin girlfriend, never talk about war. Nice and real, everybody was friendly, though. But of course I get a few discrimination thing in Idaho.

<End Segment 28> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.