<Begin Segment 33>

SF: This is a kind of a follow up I think, but it's really psychological. It hasn't, doesn't have anything to do with religion, but, do you think it's possible? You mentioned that at some level that the Japanese have this notion that they're superior. Do you think among the Niseis because, or say the JA community -- let's put it more broadly -- that because of the way we were treated here and our experiences here, at one level we think of ourselves as being kind of inferior? Maybe because of things like we're not as verbal as an upper-middle-class white, or a Jewish kid or something of that sort? But at another level, we also see ourselves as being superior -- maybe more hard working, or clean, or something of that sort. What's your thought about how we, in a sense, sort of conceive ourselves in terms of this sort of up, down, good, bad, strength, weaknesses sort of sense?

RI: How do...?

SF: How does the JA community...

RI: Well, no I think you described it well. The different feelings about that, and the confusion. But that we seem to manage quite well, you know, the longer we live. Certainly many of us are -- act differently within, say when we're with Japanese than when we're with, in the majority. I know when I take any instruments, like measuring my extrovert or introvertedness, when I'm, I take it in the mindset of being in the larger community, I score as a introvert. But within the Japanese community, I score more extroverted -- being more verbal or whatever. And I think we do adjust our personalities to the setting that we're in. And you hear this, I find it interesting, what, you know, just listening to blacks talk about that too. About how, depending on who's watching them or observing them, they bring out totally different qualities. And I think we develop it like chameleons in a way. Although it's important for we ourselves to know who we are despite our changing nature out here to, to benefit from the environment. So, I don't have any words of wisdom there. I don't even think it's a conscious effort to develop those so-called talents. It's a matter of survival skill. I go to a lot of these cross-cultural education conferences, and mostly it's 90 percent white and ten percent of color. And the white people say, "Oh, I'm so excited to be here. I'm learning more about Chicanos and Japanese, and I never knew this stuff before. It's really gonna help me in my teachings." They always go around the room, "Well, why are you here?" And I go, "Well I'm here to learn what racism I have to deal with from educators. So I'm here for a different reason. I want to know what you guys are saying and thinking for my survival," right? And they're all kind of taken aback that I'm there for another reason. Just trying not to be offended by the new stereotypes I'm hearing. [Laughs]

SF: Do you think Japanese culturally are more sensitive to context, particularly social context and that's kinda the bit of cultural capital, or kind of an adaptive mechanism that's found quite prevalently in Japanese culture too? And that's been really helpful to us?

RI: Yeah. These are interesting questions that I haven't really thought about. Certainly there's a positive side to that. But also it, in our culture you have to in a way develop some insensitivities also, and a thick skin. And so there's a very painful side to that too. Of being so worried about what other people think about what I do that you become so handicapped. When in reality, no one's looking at all, right...?

SF: Uh-huh.

RI: ...'cause everybody's looking at themselves -- you know how good I feel. And so we have to -- I think maybe this is why Japanese might have a hard time coming here to live, is that they have all these assumptions that aren't true. I think as I, as I live longer, I've become less and less self-conscious. Even doing this interview, you know, if I say, "Well, who's gonna watch it? Am I offending anybody?" I might have thought that way ten years ago or whatever. But now, I really don't care. [Laughs] But then I won't -- if someone says, "Well you said, 'this...'" I'd say, "But that was on, taped on August 3rd -- 'cause I'm changing all the time. So your view or what you think I said is unchanging. That's your problem." So this is definitely what I feel in this company -- [Laughs] -- you know, within response to the questions. But if I were to read the transcript in a couple of weeks and look over it, I say, "Boy, I wish I said this, or said it differently." But that's how it goes.

SF: This is very -- probably minutia, but like you said, it seems to me that a lot of us, one of our problems -- one of the reasons we're not articulate is because we're kind of socially kinda oversensitive to people, people's evaluation of us or looking at us. And therefore, when we focus so much energy on trying to interpret how other people are responding to us, or if they're not responding to us in a positive way, we get kind of thrown off and sort of, can't be spontaneous. So a lot of our discussions are stilted because we're not spontaneous, quick and so forth, because we're kind of thinking as to what we might be riling up, and what kind of negative vibes we might be getting back. Is there any way to deal with that?

RI: Well, I guess I don't see that as a problem per se. I think it, like if it were a interracial relationship, that it would be to the advantage of say the more verbal white or something to -- not to demand that this Japanese respond in the same way -- but to understand and make adaptations in that way too. It's a mutual, you know... so, I think as long as you're aware of, of -- not handicaps, but every, everything. If you're strong at something, the shadow side you're weak at. Someone who's very good at sports may be very poor in the classroom. Someone who's very intellectually brilliant, may be handicapped emotionally. So, whatever, whenever we see a strength, it points to a weakness, right? And so, and it's only in our minds that we label it strength or weakness. So this being limited talking emotionally, like I say, it can go both ways. But often it's in the context of what kind of relationship you're looking at. If it's a loving relationship where people are trying to work together, then it could be very much a strength -- add something to the marriage or the group or something. A different perspective, different strength and weakness. Somehow not being caught up in trying to be, to fit in as being the same, but fitting in as being part of the greater -- what do you call it? Salad or something. That's a different, different vegetable all together. So, but it's an ongoing struggle. Not only felt by us, but I think everybody.

<End Segment 33> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.