<Begin Segment 26>

SF: ...the Japanese American community seems pretty, kind of nonverbal in comparison to the, kind of the middle class American mainstream -- we see ourselves as kind of inarticulate as it were, in contrast. So, wondering if we -- it's a good idea to sort of not see that as kind of a weakness, but, see our way of approaching each other, or maybe the world in a nonverbal, or a less verbal sort of way. And if that might be tied to sort of a...

RI: Yeah, I don't have any, at least at this point, any very important thoughts about that. I think, one of the handicaps I found in becoming a therapist that I see in many other, and why I think Jew -- maybe this is stereotype, I see a lot of Jewish therapists who because of their verbal abilities and their huge vocabularies, like... in my family, "How are you feeling?" Good, or bad, right? And yet, there are hundreds of synonyms for each one that have nuances that really give you an idea of what -- not only of what you're feeling, but maybe the cause of it and so on. And so if you're raised with very limited vocabulary as far as emotional terms, and then you want to be a therapist, that's a real handicap. So I used to just sit there with the thesaurus, and look at fifty words for one emotion. I never even suspected there were other words. But as I read 'em I realized that each one was different. And if I could learn how to use them in the right, right time that it may just open up the realization of the clients. And then turning it around, in this case we have clients who are not that knowledgeable of English terms or dealing with emotions. Again, in therapy, what, what kind of handicap is that when they cannot clearly... if you don't have the words you don't have the reality either, that matches that. It's just like Eskimos, they have, they know snow so well, what, they have thirty words or whatever for snow. But those of us who are born in California and Hawaii, snow is snow, right? And even if they gave us thirty words for snow, it would mean nothing to us 'cause we don't -- we haven't experienced those thirty forms. So in that sense I see it as a handicap. And I think this is why Asian, especially Asian men, Caucasian women marriages are the most likely to fail. Because the women are verbal and they are demanding the man respond to them in emotional terms. And the Asian male is probably the most handicapped animal in the world at that, right?

SF: Uh, huh-huh.

RI: Yeah. And so, in that way it's a handicap. I guess the other way we like to think -- and I'm not sure how true that is, that because we don't know those things we don't stir up unrest either 'cause we don't talk about problems. I don't know. You know, I suspect that's not true. I hear -- and I don't know what the numbers are -- many unhappy even Nisei or Sansei women with their non-talkative husbands. And how many of them leave as soon as the kids are grown. It may go both ways. That's not strictly male, female type thing.

SF: Is the root of this affect the family? And how do you learn to, to talk within the dinner context or how Dad talks to you and so forth? Is it because Asian males are encouraged to (not) emote, and therefore they don't develop this vocabulary, and therefore it carries over to their marital relationships, or...? What's the basic cause of this?

RI: A lot of it is, I think is modeling too. What we were raised with. And I don't recall -- I don't know about yourself -- but my parents ever, you know showing affection openly. Or even anger was done after we went to sleep if they had an argument. And so, they're very basically emotionless people in our eyes. You never saw them holding hands, or saying, "Honey," or this or that. And I think this is a very common experience for us Asians. So, we often, it's often said we marry women like our mothers, and men like our fathers because it's familiar. Even though we don't necessarily like it, we don't know what the alternative is. And I think you do find that Japanese women especially, who move out of Japan, or out of their Nikkei community, say they're artists or something -- they come in contact with more European-type men, they just say, "I can never go back, because at least we're talking." Of course, it doesn't make us happy. [Laughs] With all these women preferring more talkative men, especially around emotions. But, I think that points to more of a difficulty, than an advantage.

SF: Uh-huh. Is it possible that there's a way of communicating that isn't like the -- I mean does not having the words might be, sort of advantageous? I mean, do you think it always is, to get it out clearly in say any kinds of human relationships does that always yield a better output? Let's put it that way.

RI: Well, you might think that maybe two Sansei will then -- because they've been in similar families when growing up, will understand the little expressions and nuances, or the shrug of a shoulder, and think they know what that person's saying. But more realistically there's the interracial marriage happening and so you have to be more versatile in how you attempt to solve the inevitable problems in relationship. And so if you don't have that versatility, it's like going into battle with one hand tied behind your back. If that stereotype is already there, then say your Caucasian wife or girlfriend already has that fear that you're gonna be like that. And sure enough... I think even myself as a psychologist, and priest, and all that -- still feel when I talk in any open dialogue say at a therapist conference or whatever, find myself to be quite handicapped in not having had from birth on the experiences in vocabulary to understand it and then apply it to my clients. I'm just amazed at how these people use the English language so brilliantly and so smoothly. And so imagine those who haven't had my training. I say, "How are they doing it? You know, with mirrors?" [Laughs]

<End Segment 26> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.