<Begin Segment 20>

SF: You were mentioning that the United Farm Worker Cesar Chavez, UFW thing was, personally came home to you because you were married to a -- your wife is from the Fresno area and, of course, the JAs are, have been historically really involved in agriculture and still are to a large degree. So, this is, seems to me another one of those sort of almost cultural icons that a lot of the Niseis are identified with agriculture because they came out of that experience. And so I was kinda wondering, how did you deal with that because it seemed to be -- and I've sort of experienced this myself -- but the Chavez-UFW thing seemed like such a pure cause in the sense that it was the oppressed. And there were the farm workers and Chavez himself was always -- had this appropriate, quote, "symbolism." That, that's why he appealed to all the liberals in the Midwest and the East. But it's such a emotional issue for the people on the farms and for the people who are, for the JAs who are related to the people on the farms -- Nisei Farmers League, and they were able to organize, what, 1400 farmers in the area. Not only JAs, but the Armenians and the rest of them.

RI: Uh-huh, right.

SF: So, I mean, how did that play on you? How did you talk to the guys from the packing shed?

RI: Yeah. I can't say I went down there to try to convert anybody. It's hard enough even talking to my father and mother-in-law. But I guess I always felt justified in my position that certainly if you just look at the recent history in the current situation, the Japanese American farmers would identify more with the cause of -- against the union and so on. And with, ally with all the other farmers. But if they take a larger view, going back even a few years or to their grandparents and go back to where they came from, that there's no way that they could feel separate from the Chicano farm laborers 'cause that was them. That's just -- that's what their grand -- their parents were there. And how could they... if they justify the inhumane treatment of the Mexican laborers, then in a way they're justifying the same treatment of their own parents and grandparents. I know at some point they used to have a -- the Nisei farm workers there had an annual luau, and then a free trip to Hawaii at the end for the winner. And they canceled that to go to Vegas, instead, because they were so mad at us in Hawaii for picketing. Even the state legislature passed a resolution supporting the UFW -- in Hawaii. And this had a lot to do with their own struggles with farm labor and all that. And lot of the... when the problem is in California, Hawaiians could see the, see it much more clearly what's, where the pure standpoint is, rather then where their own dollars are kinda sunk into it. So I think the Hawaii people understood the plight of the Mexican laborers, 'cause they could see it in their own history, and their income didn't depend on that, directly anyway. So, yeah, there was this great anger towards Hawaii, you know -- "Why aren't you with us?" The two great populations of Nikkei -- "Why aren't you supporting us?" And so when it played out in families like ours, it was a great deal of tension. But whenever we got to this kind of discussion where I could point to the bigger picture and he insisted on seeing the smaller picture, we came to a standstill. But it never turned into hostility because we both could see what the, literally depending on how we wanted to see the situation, with a large lens or a small lens. And I would always try it. I mean I would go to their farm and say, "You mean you have the workers live in that? Would you live in that? Would you want me to live in" -- you know, and they'd go... [Laughs] Yeah, yeah. "You're embarrassed about your daughter, you know, marrying a poor minister, but I'm richer than any of your workers." I didn't say it like that, but still there'd be that kind of give and take, and it kept it human.

SF: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.