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TI: So let's, let's move now to Auburn. And what kind of work did your family do in Auburn?

KY: They were farmers, rented the land, because you had to be a citizen before you can own the land. So the early years, close to the war, anyway, there was nobody old enough to own land, I guess. So the farming was the principal occupation and such. Hard life. Because what I remember of farming in those days was... actually, it was one of those Great Depression... this is before the war, of course, between 1910 until 1920, '30, right in there, right before the war.

TI: So, I'm sorry, Depression, so like 1929, 1930?

KY: Yeah, that's the big Depression. So I spent most of my childhood days in that long period, you see. Times were rough. And if you're a farmer, somehow, you don't have to worry much about eating, 'cause you can grow most of the stuff. And we had chickens, butcher yourself.

TI: And so I'm curious, so you grew up, you were like a teenager during the Depression, so you were kind of --

KY: Right, right.

TI: And right now, we're going through what a lot of people call the "Great Recession." They don't call it a depression, but "Great Recession." How would you compare what you went through, or what the country was going through back in the '30s to what the country's going through now in 2009?

KY: The country was going through...

TI: I guess the question is, yeah, was it harder then, was it rougher then than it is now? I mean, what's your sense about how difficult things were?

KY: Well, I don't know what the legal systems and so on were, but the country was different drastically, radically, because of the living standards. So that most of the time you describe how are things, you think in terms of, you know, living conditions. And they're completely different as far as living. Material things you have, for instance, completely different. So when you say times are rough, well, for most people, I would say similar. It's hard to find a job and hard to get enough food for the table.

TI: But your family were farmers, so you said generally food wasn't that big of a problem for you?

KY: Yeah, food itself wasn't much of a problem, as I remember. Yeah, we grew vegetables of all kinds that was suitable for the weather and soil. And we had our own chicken. I remember Auburn was a town where there was a fish hatchery, and the salmon that they used to get the eggs, and then they throw away the salmon. They're left to die, you see, so they just throw 'em on the bank, actually. And we used to go get the salmon and had fresh salmon. [Laughs] And speaking of salmon, there's another quaint thing that I don't know if you've ever heard, but the Indians, even now, I believe, have a special right to get fish to eat anytime. In other words, if the salmon is readily available, you can go get 'em at any time. So even in the offseason and so on, some of the Indians -- this is illegal, of course -- if I say it, it doesn't matter much because it doesn't happen now. But they'd get the salmon and they would bring 'em to our house. And like most Japanese places, the Japanese would have sake. And those days, Indians couldn't go buy liquor, alcohol. So what happened was that we'd have barter. Indians come bring the salmon, give them some sake, I don't know how much they got. Bartering. So we're getting that. Plus, as I say, during the official hatchery time, we'd go to the hatchery, get the salmon and bring it home to eat, yeah.

TI: So I'm curious, when your father is bartering with the Indians, fish for sake, how did they communicate? How would they...

KY: I'm sure they, my father spoke some basic English, and the Indians spoke, of course, pretty good English, too. It's easy, "Give me this for this." I'm sure pidgin English, father's side, I don't know how the Indians... but I imagine it's the same thing.

TI: And so to make the sake, how... did your parents make this or was this someone else that they got it from, or how did that come about?

KY: I'm sure my mother was making it. Do something with the rice, let it ferment, and before too long... I really don't know.

TI: So, I mean, it sounded like, even though it was Depression, because you were farmers, there was food. I'm curious, when you think back to those days, can you recall what your favorite meal was that your mother would make?

KY: Oh, that's a good question. I never thought about it. I guess it would be, what I liked as a kid was generally rice and... besides the breakfast, we would have -- well, even breakfast, I think we had mostly, I guess it wasn't bread and coffee as such, but rice for the older children and parents. Rice and miso soup, miso shiru, and some sort of vegetable-like dish. I'm sure we had things like eggs and bacon at times to eat with the rice. Instead of bread, it's rice. That and kind of a sukiyaki type thing, mixed vegetables and meat or something like that. Pancakes we used to have, yeah.

TI: And how about like special events? Like on New Year's Day, was there like a special menu or dinner or, I'm sorry, I mean, spread of food on that day back in those years?

KY: Yes. I'm quite sure that most Japanese families would have special foods, special foods for the occasion, suitable for the occasion. New Year's would be more of mochi, rice cakes, but all sorts of vegetables, cooked vegetables.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright (c) 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.