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TI: In July 1944, there was a law passed, the renunciation law, that was pretty much targeted to some of the people in Tule Lake. Do you remember that law and the impact of that law?

TN: Well, I heard about that law that was passed, because a lot of people were expecting... they figured that there was no future for young people in the United States if you're going to be discriminated like this. So they wanted to renounce their citizenship so that they could go back to Japan and be treated in a little better light by the Japanese government. And some of those were "Red Hot" people, and I remember the Red Hots because they were inciting other peoples to do a lot of things, pro-Japanese activity. But the Justice Department people wanted to get rid of those "troublemakers," and the only way they could do that was to pass this law so they could renounce, during the wartime, American citizenship, and make them aliens so that the Enemy Act would come into force, and they could grab them and take them to other camps. That was the original purpose of that thing, of the Justice Department. So at the time of the hearing, I remember the Justice Department officers all came and they were leery about accepting renunciation from all these people. And I suggested to the project attorney that, "You shouldn't conduct any hearing like this in camp here. You should have it outside, maybe Klamath Falls, someplace like that, where the environment is different." They said, "Well, can't be helped. We're going to do it right here."

TI: And before we talk more, I just wanted to clarify something. So these younger people were U.S. citizens, and you used the term "Red Hots." I'm curious, where did that name come from?

TN: Well, there were... there were some people who were educated in Japan, you know, right before the war. And they came to the United States, they were called the Kibeis, you know. And they said... well, they would do a lot of things which was really not... people in America would never recognize. Like they would cut their hair short and wear the rising sun sweatshirts and march around the camp. And they would do that early in the morning, they would blow the bugles and wake up everybody. [Laughs]

TI: And so the label, kind of, "Red Hots," was that kind of a...

TN: Yes, that's why those people were called Hoshidan. They said they were gonna go back to Japan. They tried to solicit a lot of people into their membership.

TI: I see. But was it common, that term "Red Hots," was that something, a common kind of description?

TN: Maybe I adopted that thing. [Laughs]

TI: Okay, that was just a... because I hadn't heard it before, so I wanted to ask.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.