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TI: So why did your father come to the United States?

MS: Because at some point, and I don't know the year, but he heard, my grandfather said that the government of the United States would not allow any more aliens from Japan to come in, so he wanted him here, so to make plans to drop out of school and come right away. And I'm pretty sure he was in middle school then, which would have made him maybe...

TI: Do you know about when your father was born?

MS: He was born in 1903, July of 1903, and I think he, if that's the case, then... let's see, 1903, he probably came about 1915, '16.

TI: Okay, so he's, again, like a teenager. And as a teenager, where did your father go?

MS: Well, he said he stayed at Angel Island for a few days, and then he was released and his father met him. And then they went to, stayed in San Francisco for a few days and then went out to Stockton where my grandparents lived. And I guess my grandmother had gone back a few times, so she said to him, "My, how you've grown." [Laughs] And she said that he, it was quite a reunion for them. So anyway, he lived in the delta area for a little while, and then I think he went on to try to finish high school. So he went to Alameda because he had some sources there where they could find him a schoolboy job.

TI: Oh, so he, so your grandparents were still in the Stockton area, and he went down to Alameda, sort of the Bay Area.

MS: Right.

TI: And got a job. I'm curious, did your father ever talk about those early years and how he learned English? I mean, it must have been difficult trying to go to school, especially at the high school level.

MS: I think so. I think he, in fact, I was looking through some pictures, and he started at seventh grade, although if he had been in Japan he probably would have been older, too old to be in seventh grade. So he started with much younger kids in school, and then I think just learned his way until he graduated.

TI: And so he got a schoolboy job down in the Alameda area, went to high school down in Alameda.

MS: Uh-huh.

TI: And after he graduated from high school, where did he go?

MS: I'm not sure what he did in between, and if he went immediately to school, but he attended Fresno State, I think, for a year or so. And then he transferred to USC, he came down here to find some work and went to school.

TI: So for him to go to college, it sounds like your grandparents must have been doing pretty well in the farm business?

MS: No, no, they were farmers. They worked as most of the Japanese did. I'm not sure that they even had their own place. But he, by then, I think my aunt was here and she was married to this, my uncle who was the manager of a very large ranch, and they grew vegetables. So I think they worked with them.

TI: And so did your father ever talk about how he afforded going to college? I mean, did he work?

MS: I'm sure he worked his way through. Tuition was nothing like today.

TI: Tell me -- I have a daughter at USC.

MS: Oh, you poor thing. [Laughs]

TI: I think it's, yeah, there's no way it cost that much back then. So he goes to USC, and about what year did he graduate?

MS: He graduated, got his bachelor's in 1930, and then he stayed on and got his master's in psychology in 1932. My brother, my stepbrother, wasn't sure about all that. So when he was at USC, he looked up all of the old papers that are in the library, and sure enough, my dad's thesis was still there.

TI: Do you recall what his thesis was on?

MS: Well, I'm sure it had something to do with psychology, but I've never read it.

TI: Yeah, I was interested in whether or not he gave any sort of Japanese perspective on psychology because of his background. It would be interesting to...

MS: Yeah, it would be interesting. Maybe I'll someday go look it up again.

TI: Did he ever mention why psychology?

MS: No. He said he, it was something that interested him, and so that's what he did.

TI: Because that, again, is a little different. Because being a son of farmers, usually the story is that if they did go to college, it would be for something much more practical, business or maybe...

MS: Medicine.

TI: ...medicine.

MS: Dental school.

TI: Exactly. Something that when you got out, you could probably work inside the community and get paid.

MS: Well, I think that's what he was told by his mother, but he still did what he pleased, I guess. Maybe he had that little rebelliousness about him, I don't know.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.