<Begin Segment 44>

TI: So, Frank, now I'm going to switch gears a little bit. Because back at Tule Lake, you signed papers, you really couldn't remember when exactly, but to renounce your U.S. citizenship. But you were able to get your U.S. citizenship back.

FS: Yeah.

TI: Can you tell the story about how you got your citizenship back?

FS: Very simply, Judge Goodman. He had a decree, finalized a decree in 1948, that's when the trial. Now, this thing was already contested in Washington. The Justice Department people and various different divisions, even the part that were in charge of the apprehension of Japanese, those people, all the, back in the Justice Department, they're the only ones that could contest this decree. They didn't want to contest it because there would have been a bigger jam. They would have been sued directly for going against the Constitution, putting us in camp. That's number one. And they evaded it by throwing it to the Supreme Court. But the Supreme Court did it on the whim of the Justice, to favor American wartime. So they said that the Army did the right thing in putting us in camp. For our safeguard -- did you ever read that?

TI: Right. But then, but then Judge Goodman had a --

FS: Reversed all that.

TI: -- had a ruling that said... well, there were a couple, too. There was one where for draft resisters, he let them loose, but then later on, he also had a ruling that the renunciation of citizenship was improper.

FS: Yeah. And he said that way early.

TI: Right. So he did that --

BT: And the judge gave everybody back their citizenship.

FS: Yeah.

BT: And then that decision was appealed by the Department of Justice.

FS: Yeah. But it was appealed in sections.

TI: But anyway --

FS: You didn't know that.

TI: But anyway, but you took this information, and how did you use the information in Japan?

FS: Well, because we were, I was in a bunch of people that got that decree for another decree that said that Collins said that we were never denied, we were never accept, our renunciation was never accepted. Because there was no law in America that could do, obey that. So it was against the law. And that's where the Justice Department, they want to fight it, 'cause they were dealing -- so this one came out early, and then 1941, another one, final one came out. And then actually, the final one is the one that the Justice Department wanted to fight it, but there was a smart attorney, told the Justice, "Don't fight it, you're gonna lose. Okay, you're gonna go against the Constitution now. You cannot go against the Constitution, you cannot change the Constitution."

BT: So were you a part of the Collins case?

FS: Yes, the first one.

BT: And so you sent, how did you hear about it?

FS: Well, they sent me a letter in Japan, Collins sent me a letter. And then there was another letter came saying that to get on the case to further promote this, he would have to have a retainership and a payment of three hundred dollars. So I sent him the three hundred dollars. The next thing I know, I got a decree from Collins, some kind of law papers saying that I was never deprived of citizenship. I was a citizen all along.

BT: So you probably did not renounce.

FS: I probably did, I don't know. But I used that letter and I went to Captain Brossman at Johnson Air Base, Officer's Club, and showed him that. He said, "Well, have to talk to legal officer." So he went to see some major, he said, "Well, according to this, this person is still a U.S. citizen." So Captain Brossman said, "Well, then he could take a MPC, military government payment, you know, dollar payment for pay?" And the major said, "Yeah." So the major said, "Well, you better get him a AGO card if you're gonna give him a dollar pay." So that's where I got that picture with the AGO card.

TI: So based on this document that Wayne Collins set you, you showed it to their legal, they interpreted it as, okay, you're still a U.S. citizen...

FS: Yeah. And then even the consul at Yokohama, there was a young clerk, male clerk. He said, "According to this" -- I showed him that -- he said, "you're a citizen. You never did renounce. How come you're a renouncee?' I said, "I don't know." But he gave me a letter saying that I'm a U.S. citizen, and I was entitled to a passport. Because, see, in those days, they weren't issuing passports left and right like common use. Like me, I had only one way to go, one way pass to America. I didn't have a book, permit to go. So I was a citizen, so with that, I went back to the major and I showed him, "Well, there's my official paper." He said, "I think Brossman already got your AGO card going. He says, "Don't you have a family?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "You better get a commissary card, too." So I applied for that. So here I am, one day I'm working for yen, and next day I'm getting dollar, $150 a month, commissary card, see, I can go to the commissary and buy any kind of food I want, coffee, you know. I can't even buy no coffee noplace.

TI: And so you're able to switch your status and get that access.

FS: Yeah.

TI: How did you feel, sort of, inside, or personally?

FS: I felt like a king. Let me tell you, I felt like a big wheel. And then, to top it off, I had money so I went and bought a jeep. All that, I did all that in about a couple of days. And Brossman was surprised. "Where in the hell you get the money to buy a jeep?" He said, "Where does everybody else get dollars? MPC." He said, "God damn." [Laughs]

BT: And explain to us why it is you wanted to buy a jeep.

FS: That was the only car available. It was the only thing available. You look in the Tokyo area, see, I was working Johnson, and Johnson's in the sticks. So the only thing I could buy was a jeep that was available. But I want to be on a status symbol, you know what I mean. I'm not a repat no more, I'm a DAC. Got an AGO card.

BT: So this was a big symbol of your --

FS: Oh, yeah, and I got to have a car. I don't care what it is, as long as it's got wheels. I don't care if it's a tricycle. [Laughs] So I've got this jeep. I was trying to look for the jeep I had, I had a picture of it. It's painted light gray, like the Navy.

TI: So, Frank, in addition to getting all these dollars and privileges, were you also thinking that you wanted to return to the United States?

FS: Not that time.

TI: Okay, so you thought you would stay in Japan.

FS: Oh, I thought I would stay here forever. I was like a king. I was off the Japanese bandwagon, I'm on to the American bandwagon. I'm going to PX and buy anything I want, I got cigarette ration. See, I go to PX, they gave me a card, they said, "For your ration." Five carton in a month, now, two one month, two one week and three single card. Five card, dollar a carton.

<End Segment 44> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.