<Begin Segment 28>

BT: So before we go to Santa Fe, anything...

FS: No, let's go to Santa Fe.

BT: Okay. So we talked a little bit about why you thought you were sent to Santa Fe.

FS: The only thing I could figure, that we got on the Gripsholm exchange ship. And I think I met one or two guys over at Santa Fe that was on the same, yeah. And they were in Japan after, I saw 'em on the boat.

BT: So what was different about being at Santa Fe, which was a Department of Justice camp?

FS: Rigid, very rigid. No fooling around. The guards were very firm, but very fair. And they didn't cheat nothing. Our canteen had, canteen had beer. Beer. I could buy a beer and drink, get drunk. Cigarettes, candy, Baby Ruth, you know -- I mean, not Baby Ruth -- but candy, which we couldn't get in the regular camp, everything was there. I mean, it was just like Christmas.

BT: Do you recall that there were any conflicts with the inmates and the guards?

FS: No, because they kept away. But we did have a hearing very often. Why we want to go to Japan? "Why did you renounce your citizenship?" "Why did you go to Tule Lake?" Then they go underneath, very slyly. "Did you join the Hoshidan?" "What rank did you have in the Hoshidan?" They didn't say "join." "What rank did you have?" They're very good interrogators, they were professional. They had the Sam Browning belt and a Boy Scout hat. They had the hearing. I had a file like that on me. I'd like to know where that file is.

BT: Oh, you haven't seen your file yet, huh?

FS: No, it was thick. And he was going through that. He said, "I see that you were, got out of, you didn't go to finish high school, you went to Belmont High School, L.A.?" "Yeah." "That's what it says here," he says. So he knew everything. He knew everything. I said, "You know when I'm going to die?" [Laughs] But it was... I forgot when they had that big riot. We had a big riot. And this guy Isamu Uchida, he was a chairman. He was a chairman of Hoshidan in Tule Lake. You didn't know that? Big shot. He was the top man. And he told, he was that told me, he said, "Don't, maybe your old man signed you up for the dan, but don't attend the meeting."

BT: Oh, he told you that?

FS: Yeah, he said, "Itte mo wakarande, you." Nihongo. "Wasting your time. And then he said, "You don't have to go to undou in the morning. You go to judo anyway. You get better exercise there." So he's countering what he's telling everybody else to do. So I did what he told me.

BT: Well, he ended up going to Japan and he died shortly thereafter.

FS: Yeah. You know, when he died, he was one of the biggest black marketeer in Japan? He did something fantastic. Anyway, in Santa Fe, one day he told me -- this is quite a while later -- midway, after that, when they had the riot. He said, "Sumida, I want to talk to you." He sent somebody after me, some other Kibei guy or somebody. He said, "Uchida-san want to talk to you." I said, okay, I went to the barrack. And then we went outside and he says, "Tomorrow in the morning, about ten o'clock, there's going to be a big riot here." So he says, "Don't stay in the barrack because that'd be an easy place to catch you. Because they're gonna raid the barracks." So he said, "You know anyplace you could hide half of the day?" I said, "Half a day hiding? I don't know." He said, "I heard somebody tell me you're working." I said, "Yeah, I work in the mess hall." There was only one mess hall, and that was near the administrator area. And I said, "I'm working in the mess hall." He said, "Well, you go up to the mess hall early in the morning." If you got breakfast, working the breakfast, stay there. Stay there, because there's going to be something happening before noon, ten o'clock. So I can't tell you now, but it's gonna be trouble." So that's what I did. I went and told the head cook, and I told him that, "I have to stay here." Maybe he knew, I don't know. He didn't ask me.

BT: So did you ever find out what the issue was at the riot?

FS: I don't know the issue. That's the funny thing, I don't know the issue of why they had that riot.

BT: You heard about the tear gas?

FS: Tear gas? They didn't use tear gas. They used guards and horses. Came running down, guards with billy clubs, nice long one, hit everybody on the head. You know, when you hit somebody on the head with a billy club, know what it sounds like? Hitting watermelon. I'm not kidding you, that's what it sounded like. And then there was a guy in west L.A. named Eddie Osugi. In Santa Fe, he was my next (bed) neighbor, original. Oh, after the riot, we went to the new section. Because more people came from Tule Lake, remember that time? So the riot was in the old section, I was living in the old section, in a green barrack. And then Eddie and quite a few people were gone. So I said to one guy, "What happened to Osugi?" "Oh, he got sent out of the camp." "Where?" "I don't know. He didn't even come after his stuff, they just packed him on a bus, and never saw him after that." And then the next thing you know, that was after the riot. He was hit on the head, picked up by the guards and put in a detention, and from there, they sent him someplace, I don't know where. Isamu Uchida was sent, all the big shots. I think there was an inu there. [Laughs] You know why? Because, and there were a lot of Kibei working in the administration, censoring letters, Santa Fe. About ten of 'em. And then we call 'em fuchuusei, "disloyal." You know? They're Kibei. They can't speak English, but all they know is how to read Japanese. So they were censoring our letter, and they look at the letter, so and so, they read little bit, you know that outline? Cut all out nice like a frame. That's how my letter came. My mom sent me I don't know how many letter. It said, "Hello Teruo," that's my Japanese name. And then, "Haha yori." But I don't know what's inside, those Kibei... so one day I saw those Kibei guys, about four or five of 'em. I said, "You know, you guys been censoring our letter, huh?" And I couldn't speak Japanese, so I said it in English. And by then, they spoke English. I said, "How come you guys cut everything out? Why don't you cut only the bad things?" "Ah, too much work." So they cut the whole thing out. So I said, "You know what? This war, this war is not gonna be forever. Sooner or later it's gonna stop, and boy, if you're in L.A., I hope I meet you." That's all I said. I didn't say the other. I don't want to get sent out, you know what I mean? So they can question me and I'll just say, "I didn't threaten 'em." But anyway, the Kibei, a lot of the smart ones were working for the Office of Information, O-something. Naval Intelligence.

BT: ONI.

FS: Yeah. Army Intelligence, original OSS, which was the CIA. And what else? Instructors, Kibei. Monterey, Camp Savage, or the other one? Minnesota. They were all instructors. So they were the fuchuusei, they were the disloyal ones. Here we were out in the camp being disloyal, they were doing things, sly, silently, disloyalty against their own race. But what they did was worse than what we did. I think so.

<End Segment 28> - Copyright © 2009 Densho. All Rights Reserved.